With this post, I’ll begin a series on various rules of men that have been created by this church. Some may have changed here and there over time, and some may not have been enforced equally across all congregations. But every one of these has been verified by former members.
Keep in mind that the point here is not to argue the validity of the reasoning behind any of these rules, but to argue that the church composed of fallible humans should not be making rules like these at all.
“They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.” Mt 15:19 (NIV)
“But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Mt 15:19 (KJV)
- Dresses for women required on Sunday. (Dress your best for God.)
- Ties for men required on Sunday.
- Men cannot preach or serve the Lord’s table without a suit coat on.
- Preachers cannot wear blue jeans or shorts, even during the week. (This was years ago, not sure if this is still the case.)
- Nylons required for women on Sunday. (Not sure about other times a
woman wears a dress, but for sure on Sunday. This was discussed at a May
Meeting a couple years ago.) - Tennis shoes not allowed at class or personal work.
- Bare toes not allowed on personal work or class. (Must either wear
socks or nylons if wearing open toed shoes or sandals, and this applies
when wearing pants or dresses.) - Blue jeans not allowed at class. Black jeans are okay. Blue jean skirts are okay. Really? Come on, people.
- Shorts must be below knees even for children. (This might have changed a little bit but not sure.)
- No knickers at Bible class for women.
- Shirts with collars required at Bible class for men.
- No tank tops.
- No thong underwear.
- No push-up bras.
- Must have t-shirt under dress shirt.
- Tattoos are forbidden.
- Ankle bracelets were not allowed (not sure if this has changed, someone please verify).
- Women can have pierced ears, but nothing else can be pierced.
- Men’s ears cannot be pierced.
h/t to CB and anonymous commenters for many of these
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Even the mainline Churches of Christ teach their congregations to dress discreetly in keeping with the scriptures. 1 Timothy 2:9-"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety;" The preachers have a right to teach it brother.
Do they teach the scriptures or so they teach opinions of how those scriptures are to be kept? Keeping with the scriptures is teaching the scripture to be modest, no more, no less. A teacher teaches by example but cannot bind her individual 'personal standards' on another sister.
The church should TEACH facts, but OFFER opinions as just that…fallible opinions, or humble advice to be taken or left based on the recipient's conscience and spiritual maturity. Anything else is oppression and rule following. Trying to make laws out of opinions is ludicrous. We all know that there is no law that is universally applicable. There are always exceptions, and man can never conform to the letter of the law as an imperfect human being. Colossians 2:13-14 – When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He… Read more »
Since when did the apostles go around telling people what kind of underwear or bra they could wear? Do the men in this church have underwear rules too? Do they ask if they can wear briefs versus boxers? How about low rise panties for women? Is that sin too? How about bikini pantie styles? What about hipster pantie styles?How about boy short pantie styles?What about high rise pantie styles?What if someone doesn't wear any panties at all?Do Christian men really need to sit around imagining what pantie styles women can wear? It's hard enough to keep the mind pure; they… Read more »
Pensacola, I worry about you. Big Time.
Me or my undies?
Right Pensacola. Give it a rest.
Anon 9:10 and 3:54, Pensacola is making a legitimate point that has been made before on this blog, by me and by commenters. Once you start making rules, essentially legislating one person's (or a group of people's) opinions, where do you stop? It is absurd that the church has even attempted to go down this road. That is the point.
This is just another example of totalitarian behavior. What kind of religions micromanage the lives of their members? Cults. Is your faith in God or in an human leader? Men are fallible, God alone is infallible. Are you told "Jesus said" or "Merie said?" Are your proving out what you are told, or are you being intimidate into obedience and silence? Are you a christian or a mind numbed drone? How much more abuse will you take before you get up and walk out? Woman underwear rules and regulations? Whats next for the carnal rules and regulation? The more carnal… Read more »
Amen Anon 10:03. "The more carnal rules a church has the less spiritual life a church has."
Matthew 15:9 – They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.
I agree with Kevin and Pensacola. I remember that the evangelist from Spring Valley spent a whole talk on it, in front of several congregations, about the female underwear issue. When I was in Portland, we were taught that women couldn't wear any type of underwear that was black, red, etc. and couldn't have lace on it etc because it was sexy.Also we were taught we couldn't wear the Candies brank sandals, because they were too sexy.To me it was ridiculous even then. I know I wore a black tank top under a black blouse, and my roommate at the… Read more »
Wow Debby! A whole class on women's panties??
I would have died of embarrassment.
Talk about putting a stumbling block in thy brother's way.
After that speech, I hope he closed with a quick rebuking on uncleanness!
In the peoples temple, under Jim Jones, all the members were tattle tales on each other in an effort to gain favor with their leader, Jim Jones. You will finally realize that everyone is watching everyone and acting as a church spy in the COC as well; it is amazing that cults use similar tactics. The tactic of love bombing is an interesting study too! Love bombing is not just one thing, but a whole suite of behaviors designed to attract a person and draw them in until the new recruit feels unconditional love and then the person is hooked… Read more »
I agree that the micro managing of the congregation is to control them. This is what oppression is. Not all the time is oppression in your face. There is a lot of it done quietly and all for control without Godly wisdom.
It seems that when you don't have Godly wisdom to exhort and teach people you have a good chance of using oppressive tactics to prod them along.
In a cult there is a grooming process between the leader and the followers where the leader first gains the trust of members through love bombing, then slowly violates boundaries of decency. The members either do not notice, or do not say anything, because of the deceived state they are in due to the love bombing. Common decency says that sexual matters are to be kept private and are not for public discussion: discretion means privacy. It is easy to see if you step back and start asking why is masterbation a public teaching in the COC? Why is woman… Read more »
Pensacola, it was a talk, I believe it was for a November meeting. I got a copy of the talk from a Christian that was in the Spring Valley congregation at the time. He had found one of the forbidden panties in the dryer, it belonged to one of the young Christians that was staying with him and his wife. He went into detail about how he found it, and told us all that we can't let the young ones and our daughters give us excuses-such as they wear them to avoid panty lines.Oh yes! the year that I finally… Read more »
Debby, whew. I can't even LOLWho determines what sexy is anyway? There are some people who think Granny Panties are sexy (seriously!)Does that mean I can't wear them anymore? It's interesting how people will say things and do not realize they're revealing the dirty thoughts of their own minds. OOPS!Before our preacher had to sit down, he rebuked me for being sensual (not sure what he meant on that one for he didn't give a specific example; would've been extremely helpful if he had).During my rebuking, he read the passages about Jezebele. For the life of me I couldn't figure… Read more »
Sensual is often used to describe sexual attraction, but actually refers to any of the five sense's: taste, touch, smell, sight, and hearing. In Ecclesiastics Solomon describes how he tried all of the sensual pleasures but nothing satisfied him. He had men singers and women singer (sound) wine (taste) women (touch) and all the other pleasures of the flesh but was miserable. If the preacher told you that you were being sensual it means he was attracted to you for some reason. I used to get insulted constantly by Dominick for many things and I finally realized that I was… Read more »
On the occasions that I met Gary and Paula,(several), I always thought that Paula over did her make-up and clothes in attempts to look attractive. Much more of a flaunt than any other woman under Gary's doctrine.Well I never really suspected that my marriage bed and other aspects of our sex lives were being discussed and confessed by my ex-wife to the entire congregation and who knows who else. I certainly can attest to all those sex rules entering our bedroom and destroying what had been a ten year loving relationship,bearing two children. These people are evil, lascivious, parasites. They… Read more »
No KF, I'm totally unrelated! Stevens is my married name, and my husband's family is from the Midwest. They are wonderful, loving, and lovers of God! They have helped us a lot in guiding us! 🙂
And that is by no means saying anything bad about Jeanie Stevens, I didn't really know her. I heard of her, met her once, but didn't know her.
ROFL at KF's panties comment.
God is the Creator of marriage (and sex for that matter).
The method in which the CoC teaches the rules, you'd think there was a secret How to Come Together guide.
Honestly, the marriage bed rules were so tedious and awful that coming together was more trouble than it was worth.
I'm afraid not even thongs could have revived that area of life.
Yes they do take away all the joys of married life. I was told what days of the week my wife and I could be together (never on Sundays), how often (three times a week), not to touch the power supply (your playing with fire), your not satisfying your wife, and many other comments from the teaching preacher from Albuquerque. It was like having sex with him watching me, he was so up to date, and making comments to me that it was like he was getting daily status reports on my sex life. There was no intimacy possible with… Read more »
If your being to sensual try wearing a burka like the muslim women wear. If someone can get a hold of the panty nazi and ask him to a lesson on burkas it would be a big help.
To Anon 11/09/16 0942 Pretty weird! I also did notice a decline in any intimacy. I only got it once a week on Saturday. You missed you waited until the following Saturday. I did begin to wonder if some thing may have been said to my wife because no one said anything to me. I was eventually withdrawn from no need to say what for… But I understood what Paul was saying in 1st Corinthians about avoiding abstinence. Did not mater, my wife was allegedly counselled to divorce me. Eleven years later After we reunited and my withdraw was lifted… Read more »
What kind of religion controls the sex lives of it's members? Answer: a cult. Ask yourself do they really believe what they are teaching? I was taught that the Lord's treasury had three scriptural uses: it was for the needy saints, those church members in need of food, clothing, shelter, etc. the basic needs of life. It was also for edification, the teaching of the gospel and used for things like renting a building for bible class, song books, bibles, etc. Thirdly: for the furthering of the gospel, starting new churches. In practice how ever it was much different; if… Read more »
I left out that when members of the Phoenix congregation went to help start the church in Prescott no one was supported by the Lord's treasury (Which had over 80,000 at the time). Members drove the ninety miles one way (180 mile round trip) twice a week at their own expense, and when it had enough members in Prescott to stand on it's own Phoenix members were given the "chosen men" sermon by DS and essentially told "your not wanted in Prescott", this after untold hours and gas money was spent helping him to start the church. The Lord's treasury… Read more »
Interesting comments about what to wear,etc. Read these comments again folks and think about it. Sick isn't it? Really sick and if you don't think so the. Something must be wrong seriously wrong. I have been studying cults and this is exactly why there is so much abuse including sexual. I attend a healthy loving church. I have friends still in this cult and after studying about these leaders,teachers and preachers I have lost all respect for them. We should have respect for our leaders and preachers. Walk away as fast as you can and go quietly if you like… Read more »
Wrong.
It's not a problem to teach modesty, I'm pretty conservative myself with my family. But that's the key. With my family. That's where I've been given authority from God. No teacher has been given authority over some other father's teen girls' dress code. Period. It's our job as believers to internalize the teachings in the Bible about modesty and apply them as we have grown to understand them to ourselves and to our families without the church usurping that authority and making a bunch of rules about it that are not in the Bible. That is teaching for doctrines the… Read more »
But you see Kevin, this is your opinion as is most of your postings. Or shall I say judgments which, as you say, are opinions.
Yes, these are my opinions, and I hold them as such without binding them on anyone. That's the crucial difference.
But you are binding this blog as judgments that should be followed. A WAY of believing scripture that you have concluded is the RIGHT WAY. I have learned another in the main line Churches of Christ will come and dispute YOUR way and offer their way as the RIGHT WAY. And on and on it goes.
If you read this as such, your mind is weak and Im guessing that’s what got you into the cult to begin with and guessing you stayed or are still there.
Cults of all kinds, that is religious, political, business, and many more have a step by step process they follow which anyone can be influenced by even you. Recruitment starts with glowing propaganda then once recruited retention is done through indoctrination. The recruit will notice the change from love bombing to hate bombing and terrorizing but will not know what to do about it. The constant criticism will continue until the recruit gives up all doubts and questions and just surrenders to the will of the leader. Read the book love, Terror, and brainwashing by Alexandra Stein.
Anonymous 9:46 – How can you possibly say I'm binding anything? I have no power or authority over anyone's doctrines or personal beliefs, I am just one person offering my thoughts along with my scriptural reasoning, saying "come, let us reason together." I have yet to hear a reasoned Biblical defense of the rules of the church on anything. That's because it can't be done. You can't defend a rule against drinking wine from the Bible when Jesus clearly did it, and Paul endorsed it in moderation, to use only one example. The attitude in which opinions are shared makes… Read more »
Anonymous 9:46. You have been conditioned to accept everything spoken to you by a Christian teacher/preacher/older-one as 'binding church decision' or essentially 'law' and therefore you have never been allowed to openly disagree without facing withdrawal for murmuring. You are unaccustomed to Christians reasoning together and having differing opinions and understandings of things that cannot be bound. It is foreign to you to openly discuss such matters except during the month of May and March depending on when the May meeting is scheduled. I can freely disagree with Kevin and not face withdrawal. We can 'agree to disagree'. What a… Read more »
We were taught men could not wear shorts of any kind. A prominent teacher supposedly taught, "We don't want to see their hairy legs," while the women were allowed to expose the lower part of their shaven legs. Red nail polish was presumed "sensual," and disallowed (no longer). Kids are required to wear shirts when swimming.
I remember the term "indiscreet" being used all of the time as rebukes in class, you dress up too much, you don't dress up enough, you wear too much eyeliner & on & on. Just try finding clothes with no zippers in the front of your pants when you're poor (I've since learned they gave that rule up also). Kids were not allowed to take showers in gyms, you weren't allowed to go to a beach or pool because people were dressed indiscreetly.
Tattoos are forbidden. Ankle bracelets were not allowed (not sure if this has changed). Women can have pierced ears but nothing else can be pierced. Men's ears cannot be pierced.
I'll have to agree with the Stanton Churches on that one Anonymous 11:25. A congregation that looks like a bunch of barbarians is a bit unconvincing.
Anonymous 9:49, a congregation that looks like a bunch of barbarians may be unconvincing to 50 and 60 somethings, but it may be totally convincing to 20 somethings. I'm not saying that's a good reason to go out and get a tattoo, I'm just pointing out that your argument is one based on our cultural preferences, not the Bible.
I'm not necessarily a fan of tattoos, but I have no Biblical basis for that. And there are some pretty cool tattoos of Bible verses out there. Just saying. 🙂
Yesterdays barbarians are today's Christian women having 1 or even 2 now-acceptable piercings in each ear. Yesterdays prostitutes are today's women having now-acceptable lipstick and fingernail polish. The church has no right to ban a particular thing because it seems barbaric and then later un-ban it because society has begun accepting it. The church should ban sin only. Is it a sin to look like a barbarian or to BE a barbarian (heathen)? Is it a sin to look like a prostitute or to BE a prostitute? Who's to decide what constitutes the 'look' of a prostitute. Teach the scriptures… Read more »
Thank you JellyFish. Several of my girls came to me this past year asking if they could get a second ear piercing, thinking the answer would be no. Imagine their surprise when I told them I thought it would be beautiful and took them down to get it done. Same thing when a couple of them wanted to die their hair tips weird colors. My girls look so gorgeous with two earrings and creatively died hair tips and streaks. And you know what? They are young ladies "professing godliness" as anyone who knows them can attest. We all need to… Read more »
I agree with JellyFish and Kevin. Great point you make JellyFish about "looking" like a barbarian, etc. It's so superficial the way the CoC wants to protect the "look" of the church. To prove because they don't look like anyone else in the world, they are deemed righteous. Kevin, I too, have no problem with my daughters wanting to color their hair, get a 2nd piercing. There is NOTHING wrong with it. I remember as an older teen, I wanted just a little bit of lienency on their rules that they would not budge on. So guess what? When I… Read more »
Mckenzie, I don't what you're talking about…the teachings of the church have never changed. [insert circular argument here] 😉
Here's another one — pregnancy!
1) Your belly can't be too exposed. This means no tight fitting shirts.
2) there is no dress code leniency during pregnancy.
And here's another one —- breastfeeding!!!
1) you have to cover up (I would even if this wasn't a rule)
2) you have to go to another room. **I once was "offered" someone's bathroom!! I clean my bathroom quite regularly and I would not want to feed my baby in there.
3) you can't be in mixed company even if you are covered up, even if you are at someone's house.
Am I missing any?
We had a preacher teach about open-toed shoes around 2015 or so. I remember going to the car and me and my husband just started making jokes about it. My older kids too. It was so ridiculous about him going on and on about some men having feet or toe fetishes. I kinda felt like maybe that was his issue? It just seemed so left field. He did not, however, say we couldn't wear them, but STILL…I still laugh now about it. He's kind of a nervous preacher so we didn't take him too seriously. He generally means well. I… Read more »
Agree being a nonmember as I stress nonmember looking at this cult from the outside you see and realize all the silliness. Just can't believe how naive I was to get sucked into such a place when in the very beginnings I heard off teaching, unscriptural teaching and adding to the word of God which is something that condemns them as well
So many rules. What about teaching love and respect? The lists of rules boggles my mind and stunts growth and learning. Looking back I never agreed with not letting them cry when I saw their mouths being covered by mother and grandmother. Their papa and I wondered "what is that about?" I gave little hints and they knew we did not like it. I don't think my son saw it happening.
That's harder to do than just oppressing people into line. If I can make people fear me into not crossing over certain lines it would be easier than actually working with people. The bad things that a lot of these rules were taught as law and made to believe to do or not do them is sin. When we are told that doing or not doing things that are really just rules is sin then we are making a law as a sin is a transgression of the law of Christ. What's,also, interesting is that many of the members defined… Read more »
Anon 933 yes I absolutely HATE the practice of covering crying kids or babies' mouths! I saw it everywhere in the churches. That's the problem here…one person started it n likely taught it and it goes on and on. I refused to do that with my kids. I can't quite identify why I hated it…maybe I felt like they couldn't breathe. But this is yet another area where I listened to my conscience. I wish more people there exercised their own consciences instead of allowing others to dictate it. That's yet another reason why Merie's Church is in the mess… Read more »
From what I understand is now in this day and age covering mouths could get you in trouble with CPS. I know someone that works there. Hmmm
Do they still, to this day cover the babies mouths?
Absolutely. I've seen it practiced in several congregations. I doubt it's CPS worthy but I wonder if mother's consider…what of your baby has a head cold or is stopped up further up the nose?
Anyway, I just saw a look of fear and anger sometimes in little ones eyes. So sad. I typically walked out with mine in a football hold. It makes it a little harder for them to scream but at least they can breathe!
I am thinking back to the time when the women of the church were taught that they could not wear a pair of pants with a zipper in the front, not even a pair of pants (usually with an elastic waist) with the stitching of a zipper placket that gave the impression of a zipper. When someone (anyone remember who?) FINALLY brought up the topic for discussion at a May meeting, were there ANY women pushing to keep that teaching? Just think, all those ladies had to bear that unscriptural rule (and it was a HUGE hassle, believe me) and… Read more »
What was the point? What is wrong with a zipper?
I'm sure the zipper was a pervted sex thing in someone's mind just like the toe fetishist. Cripes how crazy
Anon, the "understanding" behind the zipper issue was the OT scripture that says a woman should not look like and dress like a man. Merie's understanding was that the zipper (fly) front belonged to men only, not women. And, I could be wrong, but it was one of the "Main" teachers who brought it up for the May meeting. She is the one who has been ousted from Merie's group. M. Long, its great that you feel you can now use your name! Very brave of you! As to my posts, I believe yours are very edifying. You have an… Read more »
Debby, great advice for anyone who has recently left. It's really important to give yourself time to decompress and start to understand Christianity and the Bible fresh, through different eyes. And yes, the zippered fly was a clear misapplication of a verse in Deuteronomy about a man not wearing the clothing of a woman, and vice versa. I still remember when my wife questioned that teaching at fellowship and was told that she couldn't understand it because she didnt have the Holy Spirit. Imagine our surprise a few years later when we walked into my mom's kitchen and she was… Read more »
Deuteronomy 22:5 (KJV)The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.I was taught that wearing 'that which pertaineth to a man' was an abomination in the old testament and because it was listed as an abomination in the Old Testament it carries through to the New Testament. In other words, once an abomination – always an abomination. The idea was put forth that the front fly (zipper or buttons) was there so a man could urinate and… Read more »
Well a WORDLY person made up the zipper later in life. I can't go as deep as a dang zipper! What about a button down shirt. Wonder who wore one of those first. lol crazy
So it sounds as if a zipper was once again used as something sexual?
Someone posted the scripture of how women do not wear men's clothing and vice versa.. I posted that above. I was just being silly really. (But then maybe not). Lol. A front zipper makes men's clothing though is ridiculous and at least they figured out how crazy they are on that one. Now just many more for them to go and figure out lol
Sorry, I thought this was a reply to my post to the zipper being sexual along with the toes that I posted earlier
Well if men could wear front zippers because they urinate up front, um so do women. I don't think I've ever heard of a woman urinating from her hip!
The justification is hilarious.
I don't think their minds mature because once you're in the church for a long time you really don't learn anything else in the world for the most. They're just stuck in the same spot they were when they came into the church. They don't even try to learn anything. I noticed so many of the members know so little it amazes me!
Debby thanks for your tips. A few years ago I left the SCOC and didn't attend anywhere else so I quickly went back to sin. Then back to the SCOC because it appeared they were right. But this time I quickly searched for a new church home. I was committed to not leaving God. I'm glad your journaling helped! I started my own story but unfortunately it revolved around my ex, who brought me into and continues in the SCOC. I'm not sure I can disconnect my negative feelings toward him and the sect, particularly for their part in dividing… Read more »
To M: So sorry about all that you have had to go through! Journaling didn't help me disconnect from my bad feelings from my terrible experiences, but it did give me a place to vent. I could complain freely and without judgment-because I have found that most folks sit in judgment of those of us who went through what we did. They cant understand why we did it, and they believe that they themselves would never, ever allow such things.What they don't realize is that we "allowed" it because we were sincere in our walk with God. We wanted to… Read more »
Yes members do stagnate in the area of education. Members are discouraged from seeking higher education and told rather "you could be studying your Bible." I found the environment very controlling and most of the men did not have enough job skills to provide for their families, or business skills to prevent being ripped off in their self employment business. At the same time the members displayed an attitude of superiority if you offered to help; it was an opportunity to reprove (insult) you. These same men then would turn around and expect you to support them in their poverty.… Read more »
My grandchildren were homeschooled until high school. They learned things such as baking,cooking,different field trips,respect and manners that many do not learn. When they entered public high school the teachers noticed the difference. I was and am concerned about more education for them because I want them to have good jobs to support their families and not have to struggle. Thank goodness they had role models around them including their father and papa and grandmother who always worked and we have nice homes that are open to them anytime. We were always treated like family and have weekly visits usually… Read more »
Thanks, Debby. Insightful and uplifting. I am definitely doing better now than when I left 5 months ago. I pray for the rest of those who have left, for their strength and mostly that they don't leave God due to the bad experiences there. The SCOC is as responsible as any false religion that alienates people from God, and that's a terrible thing because, as you said, so many people join with a sincere heart to please God, yet it becomes a place where one ends up just trying to please others in the SCOC. Man-pleasing, a term I learned… Read more »
M Long how true that is how you try to please others in the scoc rather than God. Which I identify myself as being guilty of rather it was manpleasing or manfearing.
Yes unfortunately they can see manpleasing when it comes to outsiders. I've heard those confessions. Too bad they don't typically see it amongst themselves. It's not a little problem in the sect. Manpleasing in the sect is very embedded in that culture. Ask any young person who intends to stay there: Who would you most like to be like? Boys will give you a preacher they admire. Girls a teacher or someone in the sect. Rarely will you find the answer "to be like Christ".
Interesting comment about "manpleasing" Is that the same meaning as "People pleasing". I have never heard that term and what is the difference? Also interesting about the question about "Who would you like to be like?"
Ephesians 6:6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; Colossians 3:22 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God; When we do things so that we please others to put ourselves in a positive light towards them. To get on their good side. I have found myself doing that before. I would say things to people just to be on their good side. I was pleasing them for acceptance. When we do this… Read more »
Good explanation Lynn. Yes, it can be compared to people pleasing but most in the sect use that term. I would say all of us can tend to do that but my point is simply that people in the sect are blind to how much they do it, and ignore even the personal cost to themselves, spouses, and children. For example, some might start personal work even though privately they feel they are not ready, but they want to please their teachers. I do wonder how many people take on commitments just to please their teachers or not to be… Read more »
Trying to "guilt trip" you! This not only happens in cults but in other walks of life when looking for volunteers for this or that…a common scenario is when they would say "only 20 percent of the people do 80 per cent of the work". However, you or I should not feel guilty unless we have done something wrong. It is not wrong to say "No" as it is a complete sentence. I would rather say "No" than resent what I was asked to do or over commit myself. Now as I have grown much older my commitments must be… Read more »
It didn’t take long to notice that KS was, in fact, somewhat affluent. She apparently had a non-member husband who made very good money, and provided generously for her family. She drove an expensive car, lived in a large home, and seemed not to lack for any material comforts. And yet, all around her, individuals and families were struggling to pay their rent, put food on their tables, and feed their families. It came off as a breath-taking lack of self-awareness, if not an outright lack of empathy and compassion. And yet, each week, she would scold, castigate, reprove and… Read more »
Anon 4:30 interesting comment. KS is clearly a hypocrite.
KS and her husband took on 10 children when a Christian died leaving them orphaned. She had 5 children of her own, giving them 15 to care for. Just to make sure your bitterness doesn't override your want for facts. Doesn't sound like a hypocrite to me.
Concerned, bitter huh because I state the fact that she is a hypocrite. I applaud her for the good deed of taking on the children she and her husband did. What she teaches makes her a hypocrite as all other members of Merie’s cult. If your a member I’ll call you a hypocrite too. My wife’s a hypocrite. So I’m fair with everyone in the cult.
Those children had family. I hate to speak Ill of the dead, but even they were divided from their families. Because their mother JW indoctrinated them and left them to KS, there were further divisions from their family.It's sad when they think that their grandparents didn't treat them fairly because they weren't left anything in their will later, yet all other relatives were. What they don't think about is that long ago their mother began the division at the behest of Merie Weiss. Their story is one the cult loves to tell, about what a sacrifice KS made, yadayada, as… Read more »
I was a child of parents who did not have any TV’s and tried to keep us sheltered from the world. It gets old fast when you go to school and everyone is working through some huge problem or current event and you have to piece it together rather than looking like you are an idiot in front of your school friends. You have to deal with the event and you have to piece it together and figure out truth from rumors. You know your parents discomfort is so bad as they leave you unprepared for the real world. We… Read more »
You know, I always wondered why parents put their kids through that- not allowing computers in the home, especially when it gave their kids a serious handicap at school. And even then I knew the real reason. I just felt like they were lazy parents. It takes work to figure out programs, to monitor what they're doing, to research the best online safety software, etc. But instead they were so busy fellowshipping or personal work or whatever that they aren't doing one particular commandment–mind their own business. That means take care of your home, take care of your kids. They're… Read more »
And yet, after having shunned their non-member family, as I recall, almost all of the girls in that family gravitated toward men who were not in the cult, even though they seemed to have no shortage of eager suitors within the cult, a few of them having even been courted by church members, only to turn around and seek the attention of non-member men outside the cult. That always baffle me…
That doesn’t surprise me at all. Their father was a nonmember and so was their ‘second father’, KS’s husband. I’m not sure of the whole story but DS was a member, got withdrawn from, decided he wasn’t a christian and got his withdrawal lifted. Not sure what happened recently but he is in the church again but I don’t know the details.
Pretty sure most of the females ended up with men in the cult. Or they brought them in. Never-ending cycle…
Anon 9:55 I’m quite sure DS got a free pass with his withdrawal being lifted and or the decision that he was a nonmember after all. Special privileges for the leaders and their spouses. Being a nonmember myself the cult placed a withdrawal tag on me. I guess my wife isn’t among the privileged.
I have to ask just who is DS? and why was he withdrawn from? A congregation or two he was in would clarify it for me, thank you.
Dominick Sorino?
Anon 10:09. KS husband. Formally from Stanton now in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Though the DS you’re talking about has been up and down like a yo yo. Not sure his status now. Went to Phoenix to help when oppression was discovered there. Funny so they send an oppressor to help out the congregation who was being oppressed. Lol. What a circus being ran by clowns.
I was reading an older comment awhile back saying that some teachers might get special treatment when it comes to them getting disciplined. I'm not sure if that's been the situation with DS in Phoenix since I don't know all the details. However this is something I was thinking about and wanted to comment on. This is just my opinion, but I think certain teachers get a slap on the wrist sometimes because the SCOC has a very limited number of what they consider "teachers". In some congregations if one or both of the "main teachers" (usually one man and… Read more »
The make or break point is with the loyalty to national leaders. If you have been personally loyal to the national leader then you are seen as worthy of mercy and receive only mild reprimands.
There are so many “smoking guns” here just wants me want to binge watch and get to the end of the story. If I were in any church and heard of anyone going to another congregation when oppression was found I would say “wait a minute….this is not a Godly church…what is going on…I want out of here”. Oh yes, it never has been a Godly church it is a cult. Beware people! Wake up! Evil cult!
Anon 11:48 to be fair every congregation has degrees of oppression. Portland had it. Their man made doctrine that they teach and rules that put in place are oppressive. Tacoma is very oppressive. Each congregation has a degree of their own oppressive ways all established by their founder Merie Weiss.
Oppression means “prolonged cruel or unjust treatment or control”. Exactly what cults do to their flock. Does this sound like God? I think not! It makes me sick to my stomach that my family was involved in this but now most of them out. To see the changes right before my eyes is a miracle from God. There is light…..get out and NEVER go back.
My experience with oppression in the SCOC showed me that each successive leader is just repeating the mistakes of their leaders. In proverbs 2:12 I read that one of the effects of wisdom is that it will keep one from the way of the evil man, not that a christian won't have to endure oppression (and some like Christ, endure oppression of the Romans and Pharisee's for a lifetime) but that a wise person would be able to endure oppression and not become an oppressor themselves. Examples of people who endured long oppressions and retained meekness would include Moses and… Read more »
Anon Dec 11 at 8:40 am-I'm not sure I am following you completely. You have made some very good points, but I lost you at the "choosing to use murder as an example in reasoning because it reveals the depth of sin they have fallen into". I'm not clear as to what you are referring to? I just wanted to get a clarification before I jump to any conclusions as to what you are referring to, thank you.
Christ taught that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh, a good man out of a good heart bringeth forth good things and an evil man out of an evil heart bringeth forth evil things. When using examples in reasoning the choice of examples reveals the heart good or evil often times without the person realizing they have done so. Example: why do we not break bread more than once? Answer because it leads to sodomy, that answer revealed that sodomy was in that mans heart, and where has he been viewing acts of sodomy? Another example:… Read more »
Anon 10:55 Too funny once again. Let’s be clear here. My baptism into Merie’s cult was null and void. That is crystal clear. I agree I have been reproved by other comments. Yours or others. A persons conscience can be pricked without having the Holy Spirit.
Anon 10:55. We know who you are ….
Please reveal the anonmyous poster!
Oh Anon Dec 12 at 10:55am! Your own words reveal your heart! It is full of evil surmising and false accusations!Just because a person uses murder as an example does not mean that they have murder in their hearts. It's just an example.Yes, at times our words do reveal what's in our hearts. But not always.Jesus himself spoke about murder, hatred, lies, hypocrisy, adultery, etc. That does not mean that he harbored those things in his heart. He used his words to teach people, and to make it so they could understand what he was teaching. Debby was only using… Read more »
Refute my positions every wsy possible, it sharpens my understandings, just use better and stronger examples when foing so. Surmisings yes, evil surmisings no. You are correct I did learn to reason in the SCOC and nothing can change that as the branch bends so grow the tree, but no I am not physically abusive to children as many in the SCOC that I knew were.
If you know of physical abused childrenand haven't reported it to authorities, You AnnoyMouse 7:48 are part of the abuse problem. Don't keep those things in the dark about the cult. Shine the light on the abusers.Trees can be shaped or they can grow wild. You have the choice of being shaped or being wild. Be careful who you choose to prune your life, They may lead you to disease and death when they told you they would grow you to your greatest potential.Sometimes your choices are just good vs bad and Not good vs evil. If you believe in… Read more »
It was mine own children who were abused by others in my congregation, and when I found out I threatened to call the police and the teenage girl who was babysitting and abusing my two year old daughter, went to her mother, (A woman who sat at Meries feet, who herself had abused my older daughter with her fiberglass "rod" when my older daughter was two and at her house being babysat); like mother like daughter both were abusers of my children, and the younger abuser on the advice of her mother quit as babysitter and the abuse stopped. I… Read more »
Interesting about the abuse as well as Merie standing up against a pedophile. I'm not sure why you applaud her so highly for that. Any reasonable person would stand up to a pedophile. What would concern me is that perhaps the rest of the group needed Merie to do it…what, they were so weak no one else could? Ridiculous. There are a few groups who have a history of covering up pedophilia, such as Catholics, but there aren't many mainstream places that cover it up. They may have dealt with it more privately without announcing it out and call the… Read more »
What is in common is that Merie and myself stood up to abusers, even though I never knew Merie she died years before my baptism, child abuse is a sore spot for me. Many do not stand up to abusers and I find that abusers use their position of authority to silence those who speak out against their abusive ways. President Clinton used his position to silence the women he abused, bosses use their positions to silence through firing who speak out against racial discrimination, and churches being organzation of people behave the same way as people in any other… Read more »
Speak to the child protective services intstead of claiming you have spoken against your leadership. Clinton fooled around with adult women. He didn't abuse children. The people of the cult are the Evil that confronts you and you ae allowing them to escape by not reporting their evil acts to police.This blog has helped to free many of being silent, but it does not shine the light on those evil leaders to those who can confront the crimes they commit against children. Sometimes in the presence of the children's parents.COC members abuse thier own children and protect their adult leaders..… Read more »
Have you ever called child protective services? The phone just rings and rings and rings, no one answers. Tried repeatedly for several weeks, CPS is simply overloaded and understaffed. Called local PD not much they were willing to do, again more important priorities. I have come to realize that you must be your own savior, do not expect anyone else to come rescue you, save yourself. Preachers, teachers, deacons, bishops, CPS, police, judges, are not able to do a tenth of what you can do for yourself, and most in authority are there to serve themselves first, and if helping… Read more »
Got to agree with you about some of those services. That's what the COC scoundrels count on. But their disguise is being revealed and their numbers are dwindling. The tree is dying
I find words the most effective tool in dealing with abusive people and groups. In the book of proverbs it says smite a scorner and the simple will beware and an example of this is seen with Christ and the pharisee's when they said he casts out devils by the prince of the devils and Christ using only words said that those who speak against the Holy Ghost will never be forgiven, so effective was his smiting that simple people today ask what exactly the unforgivable sin is to not do it themselves, 2000+ years later the simple are still… Read more »
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!!! AnonymousDecember 12, 2018 at 10:55 AM. My goodness, that Arizona desert must have given you heat stroke. You made a lot of excellent points with your first post, Yes, many were oppressed and turned around and oppressed others. But you have made false statements on this blog, have bought into Communisms race baiting, and it would be really nice to hear what the 'Tow truck preacher' has to say about you, since there are two sides to every story. No one seems to know who you are, but you revel in exposing others. When asked who you… Read more »
Oh my dear Monsieur Mixed-Up The COC doesn't need to be fixed, but dismantled and prosecuted. If you go on defending their abuses because of your own prejudices you will someday realize your own accountability in covering up their crimes. Sounds like present day goverment officials going to jail over the past two years for covering up and lying.You know as I said before , if you are looking for people who support your ideas about sex, women, abortion and the like, well you ought to fly to the Middle East to join your fellow ISIS idols. They think like… Read more »
Well Ryan consider this: in Proverbs 4:16 it discuss one of the problems of being arrogant and that is: they can't sleep until they have made someone else feel inferior, so they can feel superior and thus feel comfortable and safe from harm. I have so much compassion for my fellow man that I want you to enjoy as many nights sleep as you can while you dwell on this earth. Yes I have suffered heat stroke twice while living in Arizona the first time in 1990 when temps hit 122 degrees and it happens quick in about 15 minutes… Read more »
Ryan you don't seem to like us liberal democrats much, you are truly ungrateful. How did your father Anthony feed you and your 16 siblings on his minimum wage job? With food stamps voted in by us liberal democrats, and I admire your father for choosing poverty over riches so he could help spread the word about Jesus to the lost, which he only could have done through the support of a generous government no doubt guided by God to support its poor people. When you speak against us democrats you are biting the hand that has fed you. Why… Read more »
Poor KF. I just finished reading 'The Sword and Scimitar' detailing 1,400 years between Christianity and Islam. You should read it, as you obviously don't understand Islam. There is no Democrat official in California that is fit to prosecute the Church of Christ for anything. Even if someone in the Church of Christ committed pedophilia, which would never happen, as it would be severely disciplined, the Democrats murder babies every day in abortion clinics, not to mention they molest them at the highest rates imaginable, along with homosexuals. Try to reason, no one defended abuse, however, your cure is worse… Read more »
Ah, December 18, 2018 at 10:14 PM, the spiteful snake from Arizona, again. Who will never identify himself, but never fails to identify others. The mark of a brave man:). Toss stones from the shadows. I've identified myself on here, you never have. You never answered my question. If the 'Tow truck preacher' is DS, he often talked about a relentless critic of his, which sounded pretty similar to you, who was arrested for exposing himself to a woman. Was that you? I asked you before and you never answered. Thank you. I don't evil surmise, but I like to… Read more »
May I recommend, 'the Naked Communist', so you can stop being deceived by Communism? Also, your psychiatric nonsense is hilarious, about the inferiority and superiority. Way off base, but whatever floats your boat. Freud was a fraud, and that's where your ideas come from. Also, the Democrats don't speak for all blacks, and there are quite a few who are sick of the Democrats and their wicked ways. Hopefully you wake up one day too. Virtue is superior, and there is nothing stopping you from adopting her and becoming it. Also, I like how you evil surmise about how people… Read more »
We had some liberal whacko on here who said the church's unscriptural withdrawal of my parents for daring to spank us was some kind of child abuse. Ummm, just wow!! You know somethings wrong when you agree with Stanton's unscriptural withdrawal, the Marxist Democrats, and an out of control CPS. Not sure why Stanton teaches against voting or the military, as the Bible sanctions both and America's Founders, who it appears you never bothered reading about, were far greater students of the Bible and history than anyone alive today, and that includes Stanton, and they had no issue picking up… Read more »
Thank you Ryan for your verbose response. There have been three pedophiles in the SCOC one in stanton killed himself when he was exposed by law enforcement I believe, the second was a foolish young man who was in the begining stages but was exposed by Merie and did as he said "grow up" and repent of his foolishness, the third now passed away was also in the begining stages having exhibited the behavior called urolagnia. Obama good or bad? Even a clock that doesn't run is still right teice a day, that is no leader is completely good or… Read more »
Brevity is the soul of wit, that's true, however, there were quite a few distortions of the truth that had to be addressed. If you think I'm verbose, try attending a 4 hour Lincoln Douglas Debate in 1860. People today have little patience due to hellivision, hollwyweird, porn, and psychotropic drugs. They want the truth NOW, but don't have time to do the work necessary to prove all things and hold fast to that which is true. I like Churchill's advice, "If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver.… Read more »
For those who are murmuring that it is "ridiculousness" I have to disagree. Where ever you have children you will have predators trying to get at them; they are in the education system, they are in the entertainment business and in religion. Yes even the SCOC has had some corrupt themselves into becoming a child predator and had to be cut off because they were an offense. It is the responsibility of every parent to watch and protect their children, even from those in authority. Why didn't you say something? The teaching preacher refused to answer his phone for at… Read more »
AnonymousDecember 21, 2018 at 9:58 PM You are right about the severe nature of child molestation, yet, you cannot be certain that someone in Stanton molested your son. You jump to conclusions way too fast, and that's very dangerous. Just because someone has a drug habit, does not mean they have low self esteem. Some have drug habits, because they have high self esteem and are proud, and think they can do anything and not be affected. Also, even if he did have low self esteem, that does not necessarily mean he was molested. No one molested me when I… Read more »
Anonymous 840 I call those mistakes "judgements". Every added rule that Merie created from her own interpretation of the scriptures has created havoc and loss and oppression in her church. If they stopped doing all their extra rules, then they would just be a mainstream COC, which was where she was raised and baptized to begin with. She was bitter against the mainstream COCs she had been withdrawn from several times, and she made her church different by adding all these rules as well as giving those she left behind when she died the power to add more. For those… Read more »
But if the cult does not grow it will eventually die! Praise God when it happens.
Ding Dong the Cult is Dead! Which old cult? The Wicked Cult
Ding Dong the Wicked Cult is Dead
Anon 7:49 Merie’s cult is not growing. The 39 or so congregation’s at best maybe a baptism a week beteeen all of them. How many new cult members stick around for a time? Maybe half. How many members are the smart one and flee the cult a year. Probably as many who join. I agree with KF it is a dead church (cult).
My goodness what has happened to Kevin when this was such an interesting and teachable blog. Instead now because of certain people and you know who you are it has turned into a mess and now explains why so many were duped into joining this church/cult in the first place. I think a new blog should be started by those who are seriously sharing and teaching why people should stay away from these teachings.
Please explain what the First Amendment was, and what the spirit of it was.
People like you are why Stanton has such issues. You holler and whine when someone has an opinion you don't like. Stanton just withdraws.
Oh, and maybe learn American history, as the American Founders understood the Bible and history far more than you or anyone in Stanton do.
Concerned, I agree. I wish Kevin were on here moderating. However, if there's one thing I learned after leaving Stanton is to think for myself. I now filter some of these posts that have nothing to do with the purpose of this blog. If it's someone whose comments that I can guess are not beneficial to the topic, I just keep scrolling. Feel free to bring up a topic that refers more specifically to the issues around Stanton. Speaking of, I am hoping many of you will have a Wonderful Christmas. I have many fond memories of this time surrounded… Read more »
Thank you, M Long. I know your comment was from several years ago, but I am going to attempt to make the blog a higher priority again. I just can’t spend several hours a day on it like I did at the beginning. My family is my ministry, first and foremost. I let that slip out of view for awhile, and can’t make that mistake again.
Conformed to the world and pagan traditions. Lovely.
That said one can help their brother without celebrating Santa Clause. Please don't confuse the two.
Don’t forget that Christ is in Christmas!
It’s a pagan tradition, and wasn’t even widely celebrated in America in 1776.
I was raised in the Spring Valley COC that Marie started from 1976 to 1990. Something that was preached very heavily on regarding atire was that women couldn’t wear pants that had zippers in the front. It was taught that women could not wear apparel that pertained to a man. My childhood was full of elastic waist pants. I was 14 when I wore my first pair of Jeans.
That rule was dropped in 1992? time frame, it was a May week question and it was reasoned that human have hand in front to do many things so it was normal and natural to have zippers in the front of clothing, for both men and women. There were a great many carnal rules that were dropped over time, such as no playing cards, no red paint on women’s fingernails, no TV’s in the home, no squirt guns for kids, Christians are not to exercise, Christians are only to get four hours of sleep a night and to call each… Read more »
One area that was changed and lead to great corruption was the rules regarding sexual behaviors. It was taught that the sin of uncleanness was the root of all evil. Then the woman teacher in Great Falls stood up in her congregation and said she did not believe it was scriptural to withdraw for uncleanness and it should not be taught and she was promptly sat down; portrayed as the devil incarnate, and she stopped attending shortly there after. The next year’s may meeting her position was adopted and uncleanness was removed from the list of withdrawable sins and the… Read more »
This was taught under the context of whatever the scripture is that says a women shouldn’t wear things pertaining to a man. That is the explanation given when I inquired what the big deal with wearing jeans like normal people was. In that logic, women shouldn’t have been wearing pants at all, only dresses or skirts. Totally not a scriptural reason to disallow women wearing zippers in the front of their pants. One example of people placing their opinions as teachings, instead of actually teaching scripture.
Here we were teaching manmade rules/judgements/doctrine and screaming at nonmembers for following religions with manmade rules. Members would claim that those crazy teachings were judgements and not doctrines which would somehow make it okay or not so bad to have been wrong. Well, nobody dared go against the flow and wear the ‘sinful’ garments that supposedly ‘pertained’ to men. When something is called sin and everyone is required to follow the stupidity until the higher ups decide to do away with the stupidity it’s not a judgement, rather a false doctrine.
So very sad, The vast majority of humans will go with the flow, not realizing only dead fish go with the flow, and no one kicks a dead dog. A church begun by a woman, funded by a likely communist, Mr. Weiss, one of the first owners of Fedmart, which is todays Costco, is going to have serious problems. When women run a society or organization, you are going to find an emphasis on sensitivity, feelings, emotions, and unity. This is disastrous long term, because it excludes uncomfortable truths which are necessary for long term success. What you have never… Read more »
In today’s ‘Woke’ culture, the term ‘patriarchy’ is considered a toxic and outmoded vestige of a bygone and oppressive era; I would daresay that even the word ‘masculine’ now has a universally pejorative connotation, whereas anything ‘feminine’ is perceived as good, right, noble, and just. And of course, the Zionist M.O. (See George Soros, et al), is to invert the established paradigms and undermine any traditions based on a worldview whose very perspective is filtered through a patriarchal and masculine lens. Only through the dissemination at large of, and repetition, can such agitprop be effective, as it most certainly is.… Read more »
Anything beyond teaching a scriptural admonition for modesty of dress, is personal opinion, and cannot be bound upon anyone, as neither can one impose their own conscience upon another. That being said, thing have degenerated in society at large over just the past 10 years, and now men have to go out into the world, in the due course of making a living and taking care of the business of daily life, and be confronted by yoga pants and booty shorts at almost every turn when outside in public. O wherefore art thou, and whatever became of thee, modesty?
Exactly what is in the Talmud?
Maybe this is why Christ rebuked the Jews so many times in the New Testament.
Stanton has always been big on addressing sin, but they have never addressed the biggest sin or those behind them, Marriage came before the church, and without order in marriages, with wives being in subjection to husbands, there will never be order in the church, and indeed, there never has been order in the church. Until women stop teaching men in public and start obeying the Bible when it tells women to keep silent in the churches, marriages are out of order and the church is out of order. And behind feminism, which Merie was infected by, are Jewish bankers,… Read more »
1 Corinthians 14, a chapter in the Bible written by the Apostle Paul, is focused on the subject of spiritual gifts and their orderly use in the church gatherings. In verses 34-35, it states, “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” The Apostle Paul, felt it necessary to establish proper order in… Read more »
When the Bible commands women to be silent in the churches, is it demeaning and degrading them? Is this spiritual abuse, or cruel treatment of women? To answer this we must examine the 1,960 years that have passed since the Apostles and Christ walked the earth. First we must examine that not a single woman in the New Testament ever taught a man in public. Dealing with this issue is somewhat difficult, because the Sexual Revolution of the 1960’s, with the drug culture, had devastating effects on the men. Consider, Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence in 1776, at… Read more »
“The Horrors of Vaccination: Exposed and Illustrated” is the 14th book in the “History of Vaccination” series. The 25 books in the “History of Vaccination” series shed light on the history of vaccines through the eyes of doctors, scientists, and historical data. They answer the pressing question, “Are vaccines safe and effective?” The 25 books in the “History of Vaccination” series are: 1) The Poisoned Needle: Suppressed Facts About Vaccination Eleanor McBean, PhD, ND 1957 2) A Century of Vaccination and What It Teaches William Scott Tebb, MA, MD, DPH 1898 3) Vaccination: Proved Useless and Dangerous From 45 Years… Read more »