I almost corrected her when she said “God never fails” but then I realized that since “God is love” she’s actually right on. Out of the mouth of babes!
This could be a book-length article, but it won’t be. It’s just an appetizer; something to whet your appetite before a life-long meal at God’s table discovering his love for yourself.
I’ve found the understanding of God’s love to be the keystone in the arch spanning God and man, his creation. It’s what makes the Bible, God’s inspired history of mankind’s time on Earth, make sense. Without an understanding of God’s love, the Bible–yes, even the Word of God itself–becomes merely a “sounding brass, and a tinkling cymbal.” It is a chaotic compilation of laws, commands, letters, prophecies, wars, fiery judgments, promised lands, history, and instructions if we don’t grasp God’s love. In short, love is the “secret decoder ring” of the Bible.
The move from a covenant based on law, to one based on love and grace, was hard for the Jews in Jesus’ day to understand. The culture of the teaching in their synagogue was so legalistic that it gave them blinders that kept them from understanding his message. Why? Because they had become so conditioned to think of God as a rule-maker, and righteousness as rule-keeping. Had the Sanhedrin (religious leaders of the Jews) grasped God’s love and grace, and his desire for a relationship with his people, the message would have clicked instantly, as it did with so many Gentiles when the message was brought to them.
The message of God’s love for mankind, and mankind’s loving response back, was not always so obscured by legalistic ideas about rule-keeping. David was a fallible man who sinned greatly against God and man. He even murdered a man and stole his wife. Yet he was not a legalist. He was a man after God’s own heart, because he loved deeply.
He understood that God is love and reveled in it, as is so apparent in reading the Psalms. There is no place his love for God and man was more evident than in his relationship with Saul and Jonathan. Saul was a declared enemy who was trying to kill him, and Jonathan was a friend closer than a brother who was trying to protect him. Yet he loved both equally.
Because he knew and felt God’s love personally in his life, he was able to display it and pass it on to truly one of the most despicable personalities in the Bible, Saul. Love your enemies? David “got it” long before Jesus taught it.
Out of nothing more than ego, Saul wanted to kill David in spite of his loyalty to the king and to God. David did not return either the sentiment or the actions. I believe he also saw through the legal implications of eating the shewbread in the tabernacle simply because he had a clear understanding of the loving nature of God.
So what does God’s love mean to us today? Well, it means the New Testament is not a law book, first of all, so we need to stop trying to decode it as if we were all lawyers practicing before the bar, as May Meetings so often sound.
In fact, can we agree to speak accurately and acknowledge that the “New Testament” is not really even a book? “Testament” means “covenant.” The New Testament is the covenant between God and man through Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. Matthew through Revelation are the scriptures (writings), inspired and accurate, that tell us all about this New Covenant. Therefore, what we conveniently call the New Testament, or New Law, is really no such thing, it is the New Covenant Scriptures, really; or the scriptures about the New Covenant.
If we are going to say we have a “law of Christ,” then perhaps it is to bear one another’s burdens (which sounds suspiciously like love):
Galatians 6:2 – Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
Yes, of course we need to keep his commandments:
1 John 3:22 – And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
But maybe we ought to read the next verse, as well:
1 John 3:23 – And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
The law of God is no longer contained in legal ordinances, that was abolished. He didn’t nail one legal code to the cross only to create another in its place:
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
It only stands to reason, then, that we shouldn’t pretend we’re lawyers (like the Pharisees were) and treat the New Covenant Scriptures as if they were the Uniform Building Code (UBC), trying to find in it a bunch of rules and regulations that are simply not there.
Instead, for believers who are filled with the Spirit, the law of God is written on our hearts:
Jeremiah 31:33-34 – But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
It makes as much sense to interpret the scriptures like a legal code book as it does to read a love letter from your spouse, or a travel diary of your last family vacation in that way. God loves us, and because of that, he recorded a history of where we came from, his people, his son, his son’s death, and the spread of his son’s message of redemption in the first century. That written record is our Bible.
Let that paradigm shift sink in and everything else will follow. Your life will be filled with love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, and all the other fruits of the Spirit, because love allows the Spirit to work in your life. Love brings life. The letter kills.
Some of you may be feeling like this message of love is too good to be true; that it’s a “soft” and “easy” gospel. It is no such thing. Try it. Loving unconditionally is harder than it sounds, and fills every decision of every day, but it is filled with a reward of more joy, peace and confidence in Jesus Christ than you can ever imagine. Loving God is truly “joy unspeakable and full of glory” and brings alive the message of the cross so that the Word is no longer a dead letter; no longer a sounding brass and tinkling cymbal. With love, it comes alive.
Take a look at this scandalously “soft” message penned by Paul:
1 Corinthians 13:1-8 – If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails.
All the law-keeping in the world, absent love, is worth absolutely, positively nothing. No “well done, good and faithful servant.” No healed relationships. No healed families and repaired marriages. Nothing.
Ponder love, then tell me where women wearing black jeans but not blue jeans to Bible class fits into the scheme of things. Let me help: it doesn’t.
Let’s not strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Embrace the paradigm shift of love rather than law, and it will revolutionize your world and turn it upside down. Funny, that’s what the gospel did in the first century. Hmmm, maybe we’re on to something here.
So here's my testimony on God's love…although "testimonies" aren't something we do much of in the COC, mainline or otherwise. 🙂 The understanding of how gracious God's love really is and how much I needed it was a gradual awakening for me, but I remember clearly the night the facade of being righteous by my own hard work came crashing down all around me. Before that, I thought I was a pretty good guy and studied my Bible and went to church every Sunday and did all the right things. I was "following his commands," or so I thought. All… Read more »
Kevin, may I say that Jesus is apparent in your life as shown through your writing. I have not known you as an adult but your writing moves me and creates in me a desire to know Him the way you do my brother.
Kevin! I've been waiting for this post, thank you. If I were going to give my testimony, I would say that the Church of Christ's doctrine of "time and chance" is what really was the kicker for me. I wasn't raised in this church and attended briefly for a couple of years. I had experiences outside this church where I knew God was working and I absolutely reject this doctrine. To say that God is only in control of the goings on for CoC members and the rest of the world is left to its own devices is rejecting God.… Read more »
And all of God's people said "amen" sister! Maybe even with hands raised to heaven! Oh wait, we can't show too much emotion, can we? 🙂
Yes, we humans love to put God in a little box bounded by our own limited human understanding. That's not really just a Stanton thing, I do it all the time.
God can do so much more than we can ever ask or imagine (Eph 3:20), but sometimes we don't ever ask, and we don't ever imagine.
Andrea, you're right, sometimes staying in is much easier than leaving.
Easier, because the mind gets comfortable in its ruts, like a beast of burden walking the same worn path for its entire lifetime.
Harder, because once you know the truth, your spirit won't give you peace until you are out of that bondage.
The pressures and judgements of people who are still in are enough, I think, to keep people in for a long time. Think about it, many of these women would essentially lose all of their friends. Unless of course there was some sort of mass exodus. That is what I think keeps lots of them in.
If you are reading this and thinking that, I assure you… God cares more for you than the birds of the air and they never have to wonder if they will have another meal. God will give you friends outside this group!!
I had to leave, it was the most negative thing I'd ever seen and my conscience would no longer tolerate it. The hurt the preachers/leaders do to their members on a continual basis in my mind showed wickedness, hypocrisy and pride. Stepping out still was very difficult for me because I had been so brainwashed into believing that every church but theirs was "the enemy." I knew I loved God and had to trust Him that there was something better for me out there and that not every church was like the Merie Weiss congregations. God encouraged me every step… Read more »
And I would venture to say that there is an army of people waiting to love on anyone who allows their conscience to outgrow the constraints of this church.
The new mainstream COC encourages me all of the time. Instead of feeling condemned and worthless I now feel loved and valued and they love everyone, to the least of them to the greatest. People treat each other with respect and kindness overall. They tenderly tell me how much they miss my presence when I can't be there with them because I am ill. And as i write this I am weeping. There is so much needless pain and suffering I allowed in my life, but no more. We have to love ourselves because God love us and we can't… Read more »
Very uplifting! Which is stronger? Love or hate? I can answer this with my own 'testimony'. Growing up in the church (coc- it feels weird to call it this for some reason) surrounded by negativity, harsh words/actions, and constant judging of character, I don't know how I've been able to walk away still full of love. All the love I was deprived of growing up has been able to flow from me onto the people around me and has helped me have relationships that I've previously knew nothing about. I envy some of you that we're able to have close… Read more »
Thank you for sharing, I know how you feel. The part that's so sad about all of this is that so many of them behave this way thinking it really is what God wants. I hope someday they'll know the joy that we know.
I just found this site due to my curiosity of finding a Church of Christ in my area. I ran from the Church b/c of ALL these things, and now my daughter is of age to ask questions I want to raise her in the Church but w/o the hypocrisy I remember as a child. I'm so confused so pray for me.
Thank you.
Lovely blog post, and lovely comments. I too, was born and raised in this sect. It was very difficult to leave even after just 1 year of "adult christianity." It was the hardest thing I ever did at that point in my life. And it does feel like you are leaving all of your friends and everything because then they stop talking to you. I felt so lonely when I was in, and knew that friends would not really do that to someone if they were your true friends. God doesn't want people to hurt, he doesn't want families to… Read more »
That's so true. It can take quite awhile to clear your system of all the "toxins" that have been pumped into it in terms of bad teaching and bad exegesis. God won't strike anyone dead for honestly searching and questioning with boldness. He wants you to have peace and confidence, not doubt.
Once your conscience becomes free of the tyranny, it won't let you stay in it. Trust God to make it clear what your next step needs to be.
Today's Quiz: Who wrote the following quote? "The members of the church have a right to question and ask for Bible answers from those who are doing the preaching. But this is considered almost tantamount to heresy by the preachers of today; and if a member persists in such he is usually slandered and called a trouble-maker…We should know our Bible and we should be ready and willing to take a stand for the truth. We are commanded to 'contend for the truth.' But this can hardly be done seeing that the church is ignorant and the preachers are content… Read more »
I thought the May trip was for the purpose of asking questions then the right to have conversation about the questions. If the answer was agreed upon then, of course, we consented to the answer so we would not have contention.
Anonymous 2:29, that's a great quote. I wish the current membership would take heed.
Here's another one:
"If we turn away from the New Testament to teach our own opinions, we are in no position to take the truth to those around us."
Anonymous 6:52, you said: "If the answer was agreed upon then, of course, we consented to the answer so we would not have contention." So if your group of higher-ups sent to May Week agreed upon the answer, everyone else consented to the new doctrine in order to avoid contention. How is this any different than the Baptist Convention, where they annually review doctrines and change them as they reach "new understandings?" Or Catholics bishops getting together to discuss new doctrine, or the Pope issuing new doctrines, etc.? Can you tell me the difference? Is it the fact that it's… Read more »
Anon 6:52, can you offer an example of a question you would be discussing? I think that would help me to understand your point. You have every right to meet and talk about whatever you want to talk about. The problem is with consenting to an unbiblical answer for the sake of unity, then going back and binding your "answer" on everyone else. What you are essentially doing is usurping the work of the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life when you bind them to a rule. That produces a Christian who cannot think for himself/herself. Jesus said to go… Read more »
Great question Anon 12:57. Some examples of questions at May meetings have been as follows: Must a woman wear nylons with a dress on Sunday or when door knocking? Must a christian traveling to a different congregation keep the schedule of the congregation they are visiting? Are there 2 types of punishments the church can implement on disobedient members or just one. Withdrawal/ mark and avoid… are they the same thing or separate punishments. Should Christians be allowed to attend 4 year colleges or should their children be allowed to attend a 4 year college? When is a divorced person… Read more »
Anon 1:17, thanks for these examples, if anyone has more, please post. I'm working on an article that will address issues of unity and the May Meeting, etc.
Ok thank you. Can you clarify why some of these questions come up, like what they are afraid of? I understand about divorce, and birth control but what's the point in the vitamin c added to the juice? Or nylons? Is there an appearance of evil if a gluten free person sustains from wheat crackers because they don't want to have stomach pain and diarrhea? Or is their sin somehow not atoned for? Why are they not allowed to have Facebook? And what's the point in whether or not they can use technology? I'm not mocking. I really want to… Read more »
Regarding your questions Anonymous 1:41 concerning the May meeting questions… The church at one time used only pure grape juice with nothing added (such as vitamin C) and not from concentrate for the Lord's supper. It was decided Welches grape juice etc. was okay to use with added vit. C and made from concentrate. The church decided Christians (and children of Christians) should not have Facebook because of the children discussing private matters on Facebook. Some of the preachers have started using electronic devices to type out their sermons and some people use their iPhones for a concordance in class… Read more »
More May meeting questions which have arisen in the past… A: Must a women refrain from wearing a zipper in the front of her pants? (Until approx 1993 front zippers in woman's pants were not allowed. The women of the church were required to wear only side zippers, back zippers or no zippers in their pants. Some women actually wore their pants backwards, some wore elastic waist pants and removed the decorative fly stitching if there was any on an elastic waist pair of pants; some removed the zipper from the front and added it to the side or back.)… Read more »
I had better qualify here that when we had questions about an understanding we would spend good time together, in our Bibles, to come to our answer in our respective congregations not just the May trip. So I agree with anonymous 6:52.
Just because you have your bible open and spend good time in your congregation does not make the practice of devising doctrines pleasing to God, or any different from that which you condemn. You can plainly see it is wrong when the Baptists do it but you are blinded by your own justifications.
To continue the above discourse about May meeting discussions before and during the May meeting… It's great to discuss both sides of questions but I believe that it should start and end with the concept of discussion; nothing more. A discussion gives food for thought to respective listeners but a binding decision should not be the intended or unintended outcome. There are individuals at the meeting (such as Tom) that have warned the participants not to bind what is decided but somehow that warning is lost in translation or not heeded by the teachers. Congregants are often told "this is… Read more »
I must confess, the bloggers were slowing down so thought I would toss a little meat in the ring and get you all going again. Looks like it worked. :D. Again Romans 2:15 comes to mind; accusing and excusing one another. You didn't disappoint me.
Anon 2:46, you just admitted that debate for sport and amusement was your goal, which is pretty unscriptural and one of the few things I believe churches ARE actually supposed to toss someone out of their midst for. This forum is for honest dialogue and enlightenment, not sport. If your motives are otherwise, please find another venue.
Anon 2:46, that's weird to try to get people at each other. Are you from Stanton coc? Because if you are then a public confession may be in order. I don't think it is authorized to confess via blog. Maybe this May we will get an answer on that one.
Interesting question: If you sin anonymously, can you confess anonymously? Oh, the rules and regulations mankind can come up with to "interpret the law" for the masses.
Confessing Sins: (I'm no longer a member of the sect) BUT, thinking about confessing sins before the congregation, I kinda thought that seemed like the Catholics who confess their sins to the priest; but there's one intercessor between God and man and that is Christ not the priest. If I sin against someone I apologize to that person that I hurt (and I now say I apologize & don't necessarily say "I ask your forgiveness for…". If no one in the congregation knew what I did publicly that is wrong but only people I may never see again, why isn't… Read more »
Confession of sin. See Luke 17:3 Christ said (Paraphrased) if a man sins and afterwards says I repent, to forgive him. The man never says I ask your forgiveness, but he does convey the idea that he did change his conduct and made some kind of confession. To Christ this was sufficient. To Christ it was sufficient to confess the name of Christ and upon this confession at baptism God is more than willing to forgive us our sins. If we were insincere during baptism, God knows and we would be dealt with by him. It is the same concept… Read more »
There are people that are withdrawn from for decades that have repented of the sin they were withdrawn from for but because they have not come back to the church to make themselves right and have not shown fruits of repentance they stay in a perpetual state of withdrawl.
On making the wrong chooses.We all hold responsibility on not standing up and correcting wrong teaching when it comes out, even if it's to say "Something does not feel right about that teaching to me". But how do you explain suborning people? That's persuading others to do the wrong thing by influence or argument because God made us the preacher, teacher, deacon, elder, or those who just say: well we know better and your wrong.When I heard the teaching recently about it is OK now to go to a post secondary school, or even college, because we have the responsibility… Read more »
Children leaving home left many teachers and older ones in a dilemma. They could not see their children or grand children under the previous teachings when their children left home and moved far away. Under the previous teaching we could not just up and travel if it meant we would miss Sunday at our home congregation. So again the teaching was changed albeit for the better. Now the teachers and older ones could go visit their departed children and go to Church assemblies outside their home congregation.But what of the people who were withdrawn from previously for leaving their home… Read more »
When a Church stops following the scriptures and instead follows the leader or esteems the leader higher than God and Christ it is corrupted. I was baptized into the Church of Christ and in week one I was given a written lesson from Merie Weiss to study; welcome to Christianity here is our leader we follow. I should have been taught to study the bible not the deceased leader. Many of the teachings were given not from scripture but rather from what ever mood the teacher was in; if the teacher was in a good mood it was a good… Read more »
Anonymous 6:58
I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or what? Are you saying you enjoy seeing your children suffer financially so they can learn to pinch a penny? I would think that to be foolish. And the last sentence does not make sense, unless you are being sarcastic.
Personally I learned awhile ago that sarcasm does little to help in counseling folks. Your sarcasm sounds like mocking, but maybe that is why you work a job of little to no means? What is your point here?
Not sarcasm, but rather anger. When I hear stories of church abuse I get angry and start spitting out everything I know to be wrong with the church. When someone is going through a serious illness of end of life situation it is a time for comfort not insult. When a man suffers the loss of his mate it is an overwhelming loss and the person is in need of comfort and compassion which the church is incapable of. The practices of the Church of Christ are the practices of a cult; that is all for the leader at the… Read more »
To the Mule: Your anger is justified! While I was in the group, a Christian who was in another congregation lost her Mother. Later she told me that I was the only one who sent her a sympathy card! They certainly lack compassion, this I learned firsthand too.You speak of the leaders and that the group has the practices of a cult-at first when I left I didn't want to believe that. Especially the part about following a leader and that the leader gets money. But later I realized that this was also true about the group. The evangelist in… Read more »
Well thank you, I know now that I am not the only one to understand these things. Many more than the two evangelist's get paid, but it is just indirectly. I was told to cancel my apartment lease, pay the fine, and move in with the Volkswagen mechanic from Oxnard. I paid most of the bills and freely gave of my tools to him thinking he was sending all of his money back to his estranged wife and two children and needed my help financially. When I found out that he had decided not to support his first wife and… Read more »
Steven Hassan in his book: combating cult mind control explains that a cult creates a second personality in a person. A cult member has their regular personality sometimes and sometimes the cult personality and you have to know which one you are speaking to, or speaking with. I do have a Church of Christ personality and it is difficult for me to control when I get upset. My COC personality is a copy of my first teacher. My first teacher was cold, cruel and indifferent to the feelings or sufferings of others. He spoke the truth, but not in love,… Read more »
TO Mule and others: I have no objection to paying an evangelist. But the problem with the group is that the evangelists are not doing the work of an evangelist. They both own houses and are in the same congregation that they have been for years! They are not constantly travelling and living with other congregations, and assisting those congregations in need. Consider some of the congregations that had teachers withdrawn from-those ones needed the evangelist to come and stay for a while, yet they did not. Some of those congregations have now shut down.Also, why is it a secret… Read more »
The evangelist from Spring Valley sure has taken thousands of dollars from my Earned Salary and Pension via my ex-wife over 25+ years. I am NOT a COC member . Why does he continue to take money from a non-Christian source. Funny "Mule" is exactly what I think of CF. GP's family lived in a rental of ours in Santee for a number of years, so have several children of his and other COC families. So I do know how this guy operates. How can he listen to the pain of the children and adults on this blog and not… Read more »
Kevin, Please, I wasn't speaking of you. The message was for the COC or SCOC as you guys call it. Even when Juda and Isreal went in different directions, God was still both their God for a long time until they both went down a road and they would not even think of repenting. My hope and desire is to see the Brotherhood restored; The COC and the SCOC and you guys also. But here is a question for you, When Paul says when that which is perfect has come, that which was done in part shall be done away… Read more »
I was reading the auto post on the E-mails from this site. Are the headings over our comments automatically written by the computer or can they be re-edit by some one. How in the world did the e-mail miss quote what I wrote unless someone re-edit it? The Heading seems to suggest I included a implicit cuss. I said, Kevin please, I was't speaking to you …. but the heading in the e-mail states it as; Kevin, Please I wasn''t speaking to you. Typo error I guess. If not please whoever did that, be not deceived mischief does not elude… Read more »
One way to tell if you are in a corrupted or "off Church of Christ" is to watch and see if the doctrine stays the same, or changes to suit the leader. Once upon a time the sin of masterbation (uncleaness), was not only a withdrawable offense it was the root of all that is vile and evil. One day, without explanation, a "new understanding" was received in which is was no longer withdrawable. This "new understanding was received when the leaders own children were being condemned by it. A narcissistic leader will change the doctrine so as not to… Read more »
Anony 1:43 I believe it is easier to prove those things they said publicly, as I recorded earlier. The Lord said they/we will be judged by their/our own words. I won't say your allegation is false, but I have never heard that before. What I wrote earlier was for their benefit. It seem as though they do monitor this site. I mentioned the existence of this site to them and they seemed to know something of it. I am withdrawn from and they of course won't allow me to bring it up in class. And to avoid public discourse, I… Read more »
That is the problem, David. While we are all responsible for our own faults, the teachers have severe allergies to being corrected, even in private, by those they fancy themselves masters of. I took four issues in private to my teacher, without telling another earthly soul of them, and like clockwork, within three months I was withdrawn from, and in four years time, I was excommunicated. Quite dangerous to see faults of your teachers. They successfully air all your faults before all congregations. If you go to them with your faults, they will all be dredged up and used against… Read more »
Terry Smith runs a COC site on Facebook. He also runs a bible class in the boiler room where he works. Each one of us may have brought something up in the SCOC. But did we all use the proper way; ??? I don't know, I believe you tried. We all need to make a decision. Decide each of you if you believe what Paul said in Romans 16:15-20 or do you forgive and try, try again? John said in the 3rd book of John follow not that which is evil and he suggested a man with a good report.… Read more »
David I just love you for your honesty. Do you have any tapes of your lesson I could listen to? I am getting tired of listening to the same old tapes of Merie and am looking for a new teacher to follow. You would make a great evangelist.
I thought it was rather interesting that Terry Smith not only started his own bible study, A way was made for him to share the word in of all places his work place in a boiler room. Wow. I am inspired by his example and how God will make a way for those who want to know and share.
Church Zombie; Maybe you could follow Christ. With a user name of zombie? Only God can raise anyone from the dead. He will do that only with those who follow Christ. So give up your walking among the dead.
There are many Terry Smiths on Facebook. How can the Terry Smith you're referring to be found? Please copy and paste the url to his facebook page please.
David, what congregation do you currently attend? Which congregation withdrew from you? Was it because you spoke out about the former rule about worshiping in your home congregation?
Seeker, There is many things best left unsaid especially with your question the why it is worded. That was not brought up. I have to go now, but will try to say something about this later.
Seeker; What congregation do you attend and what do you think of what I posted August 18, 2016 @ 5:35 and August 18, 2016 @ 5;36?
David I have to ask you where you are preaching this Sunday; I want to be there and hear of the persecutions you have suffered. There is, the milk and the meat; the easy and the hard, and I know from Exodus 2 with Moses that preaching is hard. Moses stepped in and saved his fellow Hebrew from a beating or death and the very man he saved went out and gossiped about it to everybody. Three people knew about Moses killing the Egyptian, Moses who said nothing, the Egyptian who was dead, and the Hebrew whom Moses saved, he… Read more »
David, the teaching on higher education has changed? Can you please give me more information as to who you heard this from? Initials are fine.
Oh! Anonymous; What has it changed to this time?
To: Looking for a new leader. When people are willing to put their money where their mouth is, then you know they are serious. I'm not asking for your money, but put your reputation on the line and stop hiding behind your URL names. If you are so willing, as you say, to travel 2,000- 3,000 miles to listen to a 20-30 minute mini surmon then you must be serious if you actually were to do that or maybe you are crazy. You write suggestive words with no real name; it suggest to me you are not serious. I share… Read more »
Part twoWow! Yet we also noticed that in all situations murmuring maybe alleged without killing the person or even withdrawing from anyone, nor even a rebuke as it is in The Book of Acts 6:1-5 where the Grecians murmured. Just because Philippians 2:14 says "let all things be done without murmuring" does not mean all murmuring is disciplined alike.That is what Christ try to tell us in Mathew 5:21-24; where a person may be disciplined in different degrees. The Grecians in Acts 6; I believed were mildly reproved when the twelve apostles said, "it is not reason that we should… Read more »
Part 3Again even with a teacher, preacher or older one we show respect as Paul tells Timothy in 1st Timothy 5. In-treating an older one as we would a beloved relative. But in 1st Timothy 5:19-21 Paul indicates; as I suppose, that a person already came privately to an elder, and only after they (the older one) has failed to repent and you have already established every word with one or more witnesses with that elder, may you chose to bring the matter before the church and rebuke him before all. and be not partial in your judgement just because… Read more »
David, you misunderstood me. I was asking you a question about the teaching on attending college. Is it okay for members or their children to attend college?
Yes! I believe some of that teaching was already being taught previously. My wife 30 years ago went to college while in the Church, but she said it was because the state mandated she had to go after the divorce. Oddly though they also allowed my daughter to go to a short course after she was baptized and that was some 15-16 years ago. But now I believe they opened the teaching up to include 4 year degrees or more if your field of interest is such.
Please remember, I am still withdrawn from and unable to inquire further.
OH Brother! I need to make a correction about my previous definition of murmuring. I included in a previous post one of the characteristics of murmuring had to include a false allegation. I believe that is not correct. Murmuring is complaining, but if what you are complaining about is correct then it should be looked into as the apostle did in Acts 6 with the Grecian brethren. Although because it is still complaining it should be discouraged, but not necessarily withdrawn from or even rebuked. I have a question. 16-18 years ago I had daughters in children class. The teacher… Read more »
David you ask a very important question. The answer to your question will apply to many others who are in withdrawal or have fallen away. You are an independent thinker and as such represent a threat to the control the leaders have over the members of their respective congregations. The preacher/teacher will do your thinking for you, and the group, and anyone who thinks for themselves is a threat. Members are to give up their decision making ability and let the preacher/teacher make all the decisions for them(this is called seeking council in the COC.) The church, in the recruitment… Read more »
The controlling of members sex lives in the Stanton COC was done through the teaching of "defiled marriage bed" in which many rules and regulations were created for the sex lives of it members. Being able to have such deep and intimate control over others is an incredible high for the oppressor.
You are right. It was even brought out in classes when I stopped seeking counsel. I knew what was going and even told one of the preachers that scripture and the examples of the congregation were not the same. I studied a lot and quickly out grew them, so I was seen as a threat as I could stand on my own and not rely/depend on them. I was after truth.
Wow all this is very interesting concerning anon August 21, 2016 5:29 am with the evangelists not revealing what their support is if asked. If this is true that's troubling to me especially when my income is helping with their support of one. Likewise with another commenter on another subject whom brought up the fact how you need to exhaust all options when in need before coming to the treasury for help. Also no evangelist has visited Portland for 7 years even though Portland hadn't baptized from the personal work for 6 years 8 months. That was concerning and odd… Read more »
I was taught that in I timothy 4:3 that false religion would forbid to marry but you read in Matthew 19:12 about eunuchs, that is, people forbidden to marry by God. When you look at the entire Bible you will see the same things that happen to the wicked also happen to the righteous. Sudden destruction, early death, and being forbidden to marry are just three examples of equal circumstances. If the righteous and the wicked both experience good and bad, both experience blessings and curses then what is the profit in being righteous? If there is no special protection,… Read more »