NEWLY REVISED AND TRANSLATED!
Now presented in the newest Modern Pharisaical Translation (MPT). [4]
It has been brought to our attention that church members and rabbis have had some trouble defending various rules from the Bible, so we’ve provided the following chapter from the book of 2 Opinions for easy reference. It will no longer be necessary to quote various rabbis, May Meetings, October Meetings, or founding documents. Members can now simply refer to book, chapter and verse below to defend their favorite teachings.
2 Opinions Chapter 3
- Christians must not eat food or drink anything but water in their building at any time.
- Christians must not take food into their building at any time.
- Christians must not have weddings or funerals in their building.
- Christians must stand to make confessions.
- Christians must make public confessions for violating traffic laws.
- Christians must not vote.
- Christians must not watch TV or own a TV for the sole purpose of watching TV.
- Christians must not say the pledge of allegiance.
- Christians must not use anything other than the King James Version of the Bible.
- Christian women must do personal work at least once per week.
- Christian men must do personal work at least twice per week.
- Christians must not attend weddings or funerals in religious buildings.
- Christians must not allow their children to play with Barbie Dolls.
- Christians must not sing patriotic songs.
- Christians must not wear crosses for jewelry or display crosses in their homes. [2]
- Christians must not listen to popular Christian music.
- Christians must not allow a person living in fornication to be in their wedding party.
- Christian children must not play organized sports.
- Christian couples must not practice birth control unless for medical reasons.
- Christian men must not have vasectomies.
- Christians must wait one year after they are baptized to begin courting.
- Christians must not invite the whole church to a Birthday party.
- Christians must not enter the home of a fornicator or homosexual except for the purpose of teaching, this includes family members.
- Christians must not use electronic Bible devices for preaching or teaching or during assemblies.
- Christians must not purchase or drink non-alcoholic beer.
- Christians must not overly indulge in non-alcoholic sparkling grape juice.
- Christians must not wear thong underwear.
- Christians must not purchase wine.
- Christians must not wear blue jeans or tennis shoes to Bible class or on personal work.
- Christians must exhaust all means before asking the church for financial help (asking non-members, borrowing the money etc.).
- Christians must not purchase items from, or donate items to The Salvation Army or St. Vincent D’Paul.
- Christians must not walk through a bar or casino to use the restroom.
- Christians must have a private interview with the rabbis of the congregation before making withdrawal confessions.
- Christian men must not wear shorts.
- Christian women must not show their knees while standing or sitting in a dress.
- Christian women must not wear tank tops.
- Christian men must not wear shirts without collars to Bible study.
- Christians must not attend musical events such as symphonies.
- Christians must not get tattoos.
- Christian men must not wear earrings or any other body piercing.
- Christian women must not have any body part pierced except ears.
- Christians must not move to another congregation for any reason other than health, non member husband or to help the church.
- Christians must not miss Bible class for any reason other than sickness of themselves or a loved one.
- Christians must not miss Bible class for work related issues.
- Christians must not have sex too often with their spouse.
- Christians married couples must not kiss too passionately.
- Christian women must not breastfeed in mixed company even while covered up.
- Christian men must wear a jacket and tie while serving the Lord’s Table and preaching.
- Christians must not celebrate any holiday except birthdays and anniversaries.
- Christian women and girls must wear dresses all day Sunday and must wear nylons with their dresses.
- Christians must not straddle children on their hip.
- Christians must not enter a movie theater.
- Christians must discourage their children from going to colleges or universities and must not attend colleges or universities themselves.
- Christians must worship in their home congregation unless they are visiting family.
- Christians must keep the schedule of the congregation they are visiting.
- Christians are to consider anyone not baptized in the approximately 35 churches associated with the Merie Weiss sect to be unbelievers.
- Christians must attend Worship, morning class, fellowship and evening class to be considered “keeping the Lord’s Day.”
- Christians must not work on Sunday.
- Christians may negotiate exceptions to rules with a rabbi privately. Attempts to do so publicly are subject to rebuke and withdrawal as necessary via standard fear and intimidation tactics. [4]
- Christians must not attend sporting events of any kind.
- Christians’ children must not associate with “worldly” friends outside of school or job.
- Christians must not let their kids go to Sex Ed Classes.
- Christians must not take drugs for mental chemical disorders.
- Christians must not let mentally handicapped people get baptized.
- Christian women are required to greet one another with a holy kiss. Christian men are excluded because it makes them uncomfortable.
- Christians should use the word “gender” instead of “sex” when differentiating between male and female.
- Christian women must not use tampons.
- Christian men must not use urinals in public restrooms.
- Christians must not use the words butt, pee, boobs, or other euphemisms for body parts or bodily functions.
- Christians must not attend sporting events of any kind.
- A Christian young man may hug an older woman, but Christian men and women are not allowed to hug, they may only shake hands.
- Christians are not allowed to own musical instruments or listen to music.
- Christians must not maintain friendships with non-Christian friends.
- Christian children must not play vigorously on Sundays during fellowship because it’s the Lord’s day.
- Children of Christians must not imitate baptizing someone.
- Christians may not use words such as “gosh, geez, darn, kids, man, wow” or any type of euphemistic or exclamatory language deemed “worldly” by the rabbis.
- Christians may not go on Youtube.
- Christians may not have a health club or gym membership.
- Christians don’t date. They court.
- Christians are only allowed to marry in the church, and only with their rabbi’s approval.
- Christians are required to take notes at all classes, at worship, and at all meetings.
- Christians who don’t like the Counsel of one rabbi may quietly seek Counsel from a rabbi who will give them the exception they want (going on vacation, going to a wedding or funeral, etc.).
- Christians may leverage their personal relationships with rabbis to gain exceptions to rules found in 2 Opinions Chapter 3, especially if the rabbi is a parent or other family member.
- A Christian whose rabbi knows something good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, to him it is sin.
- Christians must NOT consider it their responsibility to correct the errors of the previous generation. [3]
- Christians must not “get into their Bibles” to avoid becoming “followers of men” but must accept the rulings of the Sanhedrin at May Meetings and October Meetings. [3]
- Christian youth are not to demand proof for rules imposed by rabbis. [3]
- Christians must not doubt things that are “commonly believed within the churches,” but must blindly follow tradition like the Pharisees of old. [3]
[1] CB and many others have reviewed old manuscripts to compile these scriptures.
[2] Due to some ambiguity in the earliest manuscripts, at least one translation renders verse 15 “I can do all things through a verse taken out of context.”
[3] Due to some recently discovered manuscript fragments, additional rules have been added to this translation.
[4] The Modern Pharisaical Translation (MPT) was translated from the oldest known manuscripts, which more correctly uses the word “rabbi” instead of “teacher” based on first century usage.
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Verse 18 and 53 are the ones that I despise the most. Not being able to participate in sports is my most painful childhood memory. The positive benefits of organized sports for kids are numerous. Learning lessons of commitment, teamwork, dedication, and camaraderie can be building blocks for a successful life. More than anything, sports occupy time that could otherwise turn into drug use, street violence, and bad habits that I witnessed among church kids growing up. I am certain that so many kids I knew who are now incarcerated, convicted felons, and even dead in some extremely unfortunate cases,… Read more »
Spencer, well said!One of the main reasons the church discourages sports is because they believe competition is wrong. Rather than see the many positive benefits of sports they concentrate on the competition aspect which is but a small part of the whole picture and is not necessarily wrong. If competition was so terribly wrong Paul wouldn't have described our lives as a race to be won. Competition is part of everyday life and it's how one handles competition that matters. Competition in and of itself is not wrong if steered in the right direction. Does a child playing sports have… Read more »
This was another Merie directive. She believed playing with balls was a ridiculous activity and therefore forbade her followers to participate in sports of any kind (I heard her myself).
59. Christians must not use the word butt or pee. (bottom and potty are fine)
Also the term "privates" or "private part"(?) was the term that had to be used for that part of the anatomy.
60. Christians must not attend sporting events of any kind.
That is a pretty good list but I've thought of a few that you missed like Christians must not have any friends outside of the church. Their children must not associate with "worldly" friends outside of school or job. Christians must not let their kids go to Sex Ed Classes. Someone on "mind medicine" and mentally handicapped people are ineligible for baptism. Also you didn't list any withdrawal rules. There are many rules, some that have changed over time, of what is a withdrawal-able offense, how to restore fellowship, and how to treat the withdrawn from person.
You're right, we may have enough missing pieces of ancient manuscripts to put together 2 Opinions Chapter 4.
Funny. . .I wonder why no one is screaming "This can't be true!!". Is it because we know this is a reality and these rules are REAL RULES within the coc? Isn't it strange that this blog is sharing the truths of so many lives…and no one is saying that ANY of it is untrue? As this is posted, there are 19,098 views and over 500 comments on this blog site. Out of ALL of those views and comments, not one person is calling out untruths. Not a single one. With the ability to post anon, even those in the… Read more »
2 Things.First- There are many "untruths" but the last time I went to point them out, it was just stated that I must not be familiar with these "truths" but they most certainly were true. So, why bother? You all are SO convinced that you are right on every subject, when someone points out that the Church doesn't hold that view you just say they are ignorant to it or a liar.Second thing, Proverbs 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest. I call you all foolish because it… Read more »
Very true Wendy.
Kevin, could you please continue adding to your list as posters add more rules?
Anon 3:58 – Yes, definitely keep posting more rules as you think of them. I may not get to them right away, but I'll update the post at some point, or create a Chapter 4. 🙂
"Hoping for Change" – I agree, but they can never admit they are rules or doctrines. They'll play word games and call them judgments. But I ask…would they afford Ellen G. White with her Seventh Day Adventist dietary rules the same luxury? Perhaps her rules were not doctrines, really…just "judgments."
A doctrine by any other name is still a doctrine.
And a grapefruit by any other name will still squirt you in the eye!
Oh, I thought of one more: Christians can not have Facebook but can have Instagram and Pinterest accounts.
Here is an incomplete list of rules that were enforced for MANY years but have been changed. (I hope you're sitting down….) 1. Christian women must not wear pants with a zipper in front. 2. Christians must not listen to music of any type.3. Christians must not allow their children to attend a field trip with their school4. Christians must not attend any type of fair or carnival. Christians must not allow their children to ride on carnival rides5. Christians must not attend Disney Land or any other theme park6. Christians must not ride in a car with a member… Read more »
Oops, # 17 is still taught.
I don't think #6 has changed either. . ? That strong separation of male and female made me socially awkward. I didn't start having healthy relationships with the opposite gender for years! I recently was talking with a collegue (who is married) said she still corresponds with one of her dear friends who is a male. And it is completely NORMAL! They discourage you from having friends outside of the CoC. When normal kids were out playing together, playing sports together, going to movies together, going to birthday parties together, in mixed genders…they were building social skills. Social skills many… Read more »
Some of these "rules" fall into parenting decisions each parent is going to have to make. I agree with some and disagree with others, but in my house, love prevails, and no church will usurp my authority to raise my kids with a clear conscience before God. My household is my responsibility to lead, and in some matters I'm just as conservative and cautious as Stanton, and others much more relaxed based on my understanding of God and of each of my kids' hearts individually. Perhaps those who are my detractors in the church can see by my willingness to… Read more »
A few more teachings that were part of the rules before they were changed at a May meeting…
1.Christians must withdraw from people for masturbation
2.Christians must withdraw from people for having a corrupt mind
3.Christians must withdraw from couples with a defiled marriage bed
4.Christians must withdraw from people for sodomy and oral sex
5.Christians must say M instead of masturbation on the Lord's Day
6.Christians must not say the word pregnant
I remember when everyone used "M" for short, but I didn't know that rule was created for Sunday only. Unbelievable.
And I'd never heard about not being able to say the word "pregnant."
Just leaves you shaking your head. Yet they try to convince us they have the Holy Spirit leading them into all truth.
I remember the "don't say masturbation on Sundays" rule. Utterance of this word was discouraged because the word was considered too coarse for use on the Lord's Day. Instead, we were to use the term, "uncleanness," until it was discovered that the word "uncleanness" does not literally mean masturbation, as Merie originally defined its meaning, although after discovering the word "uncleanness" did not mean "masturbation," teachers continued to use it in this context because it was too difficult to make this adjustment after 30 or 40 years of getting it wrong.
Does anyone remember how they discovered they were using a wrong definition of this word? I'm really curious about that. Also, there has been some speculation that Merie or others in those early days may have gotten turned onto this crusade from the writings of Dr. John Harvey Kellogg. I don't have any specific evidence of this, other than the fact that he seems to use the word uncleanness euphemistically, and he was a leader in a movement to purge society of sex and masturbation during the 1920's, which would have been when Merie was a young adult. Dr. Kellogg… Read more »
The redefining of the word uncleanness happened at a May meeting when the church discussed withdrawing for sodomy and oral sex. The year was 2002 I believe.
Bingo. Regarding Dr. Kellogg in Wikipedia:
Regarding masturbation: "…He also recommended, to prevent children from this "solitary vice", bandaging or tying their hands, …" Looks like Merie's influence was from a Seventh Day Adventist.
Kellog's book is entitled 'Plain facts for old and young: embracing the natural history and hygiene of organic life' and can be read free online at: http://web.archive.org/web/20081005104925/http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/KelPlai.html
K- coming to the understanding that uncleanness cannot be directly translated as masturbation was a long, challenging process. First, they would have to controvert Merie's teaching, which was, verbatim, "UNCLEANNESS IS MASTURBATION." It was observed the word, uncleanness had different meanings in the Old Testament. Interestingly, the passage about Onan spilling his seed played a defining role in the conversation. Apparently, Onan's sin was a lynchpin for Merie's and others' arguments in demonstrating masturbation was not only a sin but also a sin worthy of withdrawal. When sect members started to realize the harshness and cruelty offenders were subjected to,… Read more »
I see. Well, however they arrived at it, thank God they eventually did…although the sin of that 20 year crusade was a sin against real people and brought about real-life consequences for the people affected by it. I wish I saw some humility and "tears of repentance" about it. Instead, it seems like the attitude is "isn't it great we finally arrived at the truth?" And for those who contend that one should only read the KJV, I would submit this 20 year crusade as evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying the KJV gave them this wrong exegesis, but… Read more »
I've been told that the church didn't take up the "uncleanness" crusade until about 1974, and Dr. Kellogg's writings weren't discovered for another 10 years. At that point, he became an author of interest because his conclusions were similar to theirs. I'm speculating that his "signs" of deviant behavior (general infirmity, defective development, mood swings, fickleness, bashfulness, boldness, bad posture, stiff joints, fondness for spicy foods, acne, palpitations, and epilepsy) may have been the ones that were secretly passed between teachers. I suppose we'll never know how many of those ideas came from Dr. Kellogg as an influence on Merie… Read more »
1984/1985 will be a year I will never forget and would be the year the Kellogg book was discovered. Dianne White/Collier was living in Portland at the time and often traveled to Tacoma to teach. During that time Dianne and another teacher who has since fallen away started teaching about a 'masturbation climax' that a woman might have during intercourse. Very specific instructions were given as to how not to achieve such a climax. This was also the year that the teachers in each congregation were called on the phone and questioned about intimate details of their marriage bed and… Read more »
K- Your opinion about archaic English is understood, and I appreciate the acknowledgement Merie's errors came from her puritannical opinions, not her KJV translation. No one on this entire blog has said, "King James only." Other versions are enlightening. Some of us simply contend the NIV is hopelessly flawed, with extensive redaction and indecision -Acts 8:37 being one example of many. When we first came into the sect, we heard what they said but could not "fit" what they were saying into their own KJV translation. One of the most glaring errors is mentioned by Anon at 11:10: Heb 13:4… Read more »
Thank you Anon 11:10 – "If you were righteous you would have known better." Absolutely amazing. What I find so bizarre is that they seem on one hand to embrace the misapplied verse that says "you'll need not that any man teach you." In other words, if you have the Holy Spirit and you're righteous enough, you'll just "know" all the rules. Yet on the other hand, they have such a heavy dependence upon "Teachers."
Anon 1:19 – Point well taken about KJV. You're probably right that modern English wouldn't have changed any minds back then. "We knew the exegesis was wrong when we first came in, but they just kept washing our brains until we believed it. Then, they said, oops, we were wrong…now you need to unbelieve it after we just spent 15 years persuading you…" This brings up the point of "false teaching," which is really much more than teaching something that is incorrect. The real meaning of "false teaching" in the Bible is "disingenuous" teaching, or teaching something that one knows… Read more »
Just a quick side note about the 'masturbation climax' I mentioned in my earlier post September 9, 2013 at 11:10 PM. All types of manual stimulation were forbidden. The masturbation climax supposedly 'felt' as if one had been manually stimulated but actually wasn't.
I really appreciate your input Anonymous September 10, 2013 at 1:19 AM your points are very well stated.
Also, Kevin… I have never thought about the difference between false teaching vs. faulty teaching as you have described. I agree there have been people cajoled into teaching a lie out of fear and pressure.
Anon 10:55 – Thanks for the clarification. Yet again, I am shaking my head in disbelief that someone actually fell for that. For someone to suggest that a gift of God to a married couple is something unclean and dirty is the ultimate in arrogance and gall. I hate the fact that these things even had to get brought up in such a public forum, but I think it's been necessary to expose the extent to which the leadership was depraved, and yes, that's the word I would choose for it. It's very disturbing that any church or church leader… Read more »
K- It's hard to describe why, but we didn't feel like we were teaching lies. Brainwashing doesn't really work that way. Over time, you build more and more trust in the teachers. You see they're not in it for the money (my teachers hardly had any money – basically a poverty level existence). Just a footnote: my teachers ended up separated or divorced with multiple kids on drugs and/or incarcerated (one for armed robbery). I'd never seen kids so angry and disenchanted. Why could they not see their methods were not working? But I was the bad guy for wanting… Read more »
Thank you Anon 1:45, well said. I wasn't at all trying to heap guilt on anyone who got sucked into the vortex of the oppressive teaching and who has come out of it. God's grace is just as effective for you as it is for me, and God knows I need it just as much. You're probably right that I don't empathize completely, not having been one of their "teachers," but I do feel some of what you feel. I have taught publicly some things that I now cringe over when I remember how unloving I was, and I've been… Read more »
AnonymousSeptember 10, 2013 at 1:45 PM How did you finally 'get out'? (assuming you are not attending any more)
How? Just decided it wasn't right, based on the fruits. I had nearly 20 years to see the results: wife about to leave, kids angry… if you turn a blind eye, others will be hurt.
I hope that someday I can know some names of the people here, your stories are inspiring. Maybe we need to have a "June Meeting" for those who have moved past it all. 🙂
Thanks again to all commenters, anonymous or otherwise. Your input in the form of personal anecdotes have brought the blog out of the realm of theory and into living color. I could only imagine all these years the damage being done to the faith of so many people based on what it had done to my family. My imagination wasn't too far off, it seems.
A young man may hug an older woman, but men and women are not allowed to hug, they may only shake hands.
Women are required to greet one another with the holy kiss (this is a commandment, not a "rule"). Men are not required to kiss, although the men did kiss in first century Christianity, as it is written in Acts 20. If it's a rule then it should be required for all, irrespective of sex. If it truly is a commandment, why the double standard? The scripture does not say, "women only." Also, is it really a kiss if lips do not touch the cheek? -They are usually observed kissing the air (while touching cheeks) in order to avoid transferring lipstick.… Read more »
Interesting. So if this is now considered a "command," do they have to greet ALL the ladies with a kiss, or at least one, or ??? And do they confess it as a sin if they fail to do it?
All ladies kiss all other ladies they have opportunity to greet. For those in a smaller congregation, each lady would generally kiss all the other ladies. In larger congregations, it may not be possible to greet each and every one, due to time constraints. Romans 16:16 is not optional. It is a commandment and is taken literally, although it is applied to women only, although the scripture does not specify women only. One evangelist shared his discomfort in a public lesson, another male member kissed him on the neck (prompted by Acts 20:37) saying it made him uncomfortable. If a… Read more »
Questioning is definitely 'out of the question'. Down comes the ax almost every time. There are very very few people other than the very top hierarchy that ever gets away with questioning anything. That is why ridiculous teachings perpetuate for decades. See the list of changed teachings in this comment section. I would love to know how many people disagreed with those teachings while they were enforced but practiced and taught them anyway.
Anon 5:57, excellent summary, bringing us right back to the glaring error of hierarchy in the church. This is a subject I believe Kevin will address soon: How can outside counselors advise up to 30 different congregations? How can elder-like authority (overseer) be given to teachers, many of whom are women? Why is the term, "main teacher" used? Why are older teachers not disciplined or removed from responsibilities when they admittedly taught unscriptural doctrines for decades, harming hundreds of families? How can this be explained? Is it because absolute power corrupts absolutely?
Yes, preachers in other churches who teach wrong doctrines are excoriated, but teachers in Stanton just use the May Meeting as "cover" to change course with no consequence.
And yes, I'll address the teacher-rule conundrum in more detail soon. I appreciate the dialogue that has taken place between posts, it's very enlightening.
One anecdote spurred into memory when reading anon 5:57: When the horrific purging occurred against members with "corrupt minds," one prominent teacher stood his ground and refused to go along with it. His name? Tom Cornforth. I don't like naming names (as I didn't appreciate my name coming up in chit chat a little too often), but credit should be given when it is due. Sometimes individuals stood up in the face of towering opposition, and held true. There were members (then) not rabidly seeking to purge and scour every impurity from the fellowship, but is the cause even approached?… Read more »
Anon 10:25 – Yes, I'm all for giving credit where credit is due. That is good to know. How did the leadership at the time handle Tom's unwillingness to go along with that teaching?
You should ask Tom. Open a dialog with him.
I don't have his contact information, but I'm open to any dialogue. I've actually offered to my mom to have coffee with Tom, because I hear he's in the Boise area right now.
I certainly hope that would happen.
You can try contacting Justin. He might provide contact info.
Upstate SC Office: (864) 353-3136
Charleston SC Office: (843) 469-1778
CORNFORTH CONSTRUCTION
1026 ROBINSON RD
EASLEY SC
(864) 353-3136 29640
info@cornforthconstruction.com
Thank you. That appears to be his son's business (I assume Justin is his son). Is his son in the church?
Left the church – Don't know if he ever came back. He might be very interested in your work on this blog.
Out of the approx 1,000 church members cannot ONE stand in scriptural defense of any of this? I can't imagine what would happen to the poor soul who reads this and then asks about it in class.
Anon at 4:32, In case you are not aware of sect operation, members are not allowed to visit this site. No one told me this. I just know. If you expect rank & file members to respond, don't hold your breath – this material is way over their pay grade. Anyone admitting to visiting this site could be severely rebuked (before all, that others may fear). Main teachers are looking at this and will eventually respond, possibly by cracking down harder. One of them may have used the title, Elder Walter Scott. Elder Scott, are you the one who said,… Read more »
Well said Anon 7:57PM. So true and thank you for your post.
I would like to see a list of rules about withdrawal as well. I have seen some major disrespect all in the name of following rules. I'd like to point out just a couple months ago I saw one of these "Christian" men wearing shorts that had a skull and crossbones on the side. Really?! Why is that ok? —because there apparently isn't a rule about that yet, forget thinking for yourself… and applying scripture for yourself… Phil 4:8 is a good one for deciding what images to wear on clothing, fyi, if you are reading this, shorts guy. Christians… Read more »
The skull and crossbones T-shirts are only for certain members in the Secret Society of Bones and Fiddlesticks. They have a completely different set of rules and clandestine operations. 😉 JK
I remember the no-tampons rule.
Yup, they had restrictions on that method of feminine hygiene (I didn't want to say the "T" word).
1. It was understood that a woman was to have a nightgown on during intercourse to maintain some modesty(?) or in order to be discrete? (I'm not positive on this one, too long ago);2. Not allowed to even own a musical instrument (that's decades old), much less listen to music;3. Friends that weren't christians were considered "worldly" and must be given up;4. Christian children must not play vigorously on Sundays during fellowship because it's the Lord's day.5. Children may not imitate baptizing someone (these little kids were dead serious about it at the time & I was hoping they'd do… Read more »
#1 – really? Wow. I assume that's no longer a rule???
Rule #75 No health club or gym memberships. Yes, it's a rule.
Rule #76 There were never any dinosaurs. All the skeletons were manufactured and the evidence was staged. Archeological finds of enormous creatures were faked.
When planting a new church, Christians must not rent a building. They must plant the new congregation as a home church, holding meetings and worship in a Christian's home.
New congregations must not be started with too many people. Approximately a dozen people is too many, based on the Sacramento congregation that was started with an "army" of believers.
When a church folds, the remaining members are required to worship at the congregation nearest to the church that folded, unless they were cleared by outside counsellors to worship somewhere else.
Children of Christians shall not sit on their feet (it's a form of uncleanness)
Children must sit still. Rocking or pivoting in the chair is a sign of uncleanness.
Children must be carefully monitored and scrutinized to make sure they are not touching themselves.
Sick! How do they know about your sex life?
Anon 6:13..did u read the sex life rules?.. That's even sicker.. I'm still laughing at the 6-inch rule.. Not sure if it still exists or not
Whoever made these rules up about children sitting on their feet and sitting still in a chair has a prudish sick perverted mind as it is.. Because a normal person wouldn't even think these things.. Therefore the teaching still goes on which means those minds have issues with sickness and perversion.. I sit on my feet all day at work and pivot in my chair.. Lol.. when your mind goes as far as to how you can hold a child it's unbelievable
Only evangelists can receive compensation for duties. Evangelists are defined as those who started new congregations.
Evangelists can continue to be paid when not actively starting new congregations.
Congregations contributing support to an evangelist are not necessarily privileged to know the amount of support contributed by other congregations to that same evangelist.
Could you please explain. I thought that any congregation supporting an evangelist was privy to the total amount of the support he was receiving and from whom.
In the small congregation I was in, there were numerous payments (not "regular" support) from the treasury directly to the evangelist, and also for needs concerning the evangelist's wife. Not one time in nearly 20 years was our congregation informed of any other payments/amounts contributed by other congregations. The total amount of compensation was not revealed to rank & file while I was there. I knew of an occasion when a preacher from Prescott asked what the total compensation was – he was rebuffed for "asking about a man's private affairs." in an unrelated issue, when Dianne White/Collier moved from… Read more »
GASP GASP GASP AT THE TREASURY DISTRIBUTION!!!!!
More rules (?) Police officers had to give up their job because of the possibility of having to shoot someone. You were not allowed to join the military either. You also were not allowed to join the union on your job (because we don't get entangled with the affairs of the world). This was a long time ago though. Not sure of the status now. You were forbidden to be on a court jury also. The "…don't' get entangled in the affairs of the world" generated a lot of extra-biblical rules that would pop up out of no where. You… Read more »
Anon 10:33 do you have a problem with the police officer or military judgement? The scriptures do say that Christ told Peter to put up his sword for all that take the sword shall perish with the sword. (An obvious statement that suggest even when it seems right, it isn't right to fight) OR John the Baptist telling the soldiers to "Do violence to no man"
Anon 10:42, it's not a matter of whether you agree with the rules, it's that the rules exist in the first place. This all comes from the sect's parsing of the English language to call some things "teachings" and other things "judgments" etc. A teaching is a teaching is a teaching…which is the same as a doctrine. If you are teaching and binding doctrines upon the masses instead of letting them make the applications themselves, you are teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. It's fine to teach that John the Baptist told a soldier to "do violence to no… Read more »
bahahahahahahaha…so we have to go define the greek word of violence!
I want to share two excellent books. Twisted Scriptures by Mary Alice Chrnalogar which addresses so-called discipleship orgs and Beyond Belief by Jenna Miscavige Hill about a mind controlling cult. I think many of us have experienced or witnessed much spiritual abuse in the sect and will find these books eye opening.
Anon 2:05 – Laugh all you want. It is obvious that words can be taken out of context and misunderstood between speaker (or writer) and hearer (or reader). Politicians do this all the time to each other (on purpose). In the case of Bible translators and readership, it is not intentional, but it's nevertheless easy to misunderstand the original meaning. The fact that different translators have slightly different takes on this, including those accepted by Merie Weiss et al, illustrates that this is a legitimate question. As illustration, consider that in one place, Saul's entourage on the road to Damascus… Read more »
Anon 9/6/13 @ 8:38AM. This explains it, "…In the small congregation I was in, there were numerous payments (not "regular" support) from the treasury directly to the evangelist, and also for needs concerning the evangelist's wife. Not one time in nearly 20 years was our congregation informed of any other payments/amounts contributed by other congregations. The total amount of compensation was not revealed to rank & file while I was there. I knew of an occasion when a preacher from Prescott asked what the total compensation was – he was rebuffed for "asking about a man's private affairs." Anon 9/5/13… Read more »
A Christian in the Tampa congregation was withdrawn from when she questioned what the evangelist in Spring Valley was making. She was asking for it to be revealed, as Christians are paying him. It was determined that she may have gotten the question from speaking to Dcw, so she was withdrawn from.
But the real message was loud and clear-DO NOT ASK WHAT WE ARE PAYING THE EVANGLISTS!! For some reason, we have no right to do so.
Wisdom is knowledge applied; knowledge is easy to acquire but you must study human behavior to understand how people have applied their knowledge. Christ taught in MT 6:24 that a man can not have two masters; he will love one and hate the other. This is applied by leaders as follows: to get people to love and follow you you must create another master for them; an evil master. This is the enemy doctrine, Hitler used the Jews as enemies of his state, southern whites use minorities as the enemy, and in the SCOC the rulers use anyone who questions… Read more »
To Anon on Jan 16 at 8:19 PM: I was unaware that the evangelist had legal bills. Do you know what the legal bills were for?
The legal bills were over child custody. A member of the church died and assigned the evangelist and his wife custody of the children, the non church family objected and sued and the evangelist lost and was ordered to pay the legal bills of the winning party. This was not a debt he willing incurred and paying it could have been handled much better. For one the whole church could have helped with the financial burden and not just one person; this would avoid the appearance of favoritism i.e. pay my debts and I will love your more than the… Read more »
I can add to anonymous 6:23. The member was raised in the Stanton Churches by her parents, became a member then fell away and contracted aids. The Premans took her into their home and with the help of another Christian took care of her for many months until she died. The sick member had a very young daughter that she arranged to have cared for by the Premans. The grandparents, who were fallen away members, sued.
Thank you both!
Does that make you feel better about the Preman's or what?
Thank you for filing in the blanks, time makes my memory a little hazy
I know what you mean. I thought this a good example of judging with equity, all the facts in the matter and with justice. Especially since we are weighing a brotherhood on the scales of justice.
One of my concerns with the group is that the money the evangelists receive is kept secret. The "religions" that they like to say are wrong show where all of their money goes, even the salaries of their paid employees. No one is too important to have their pay displayed monthly.The excuse that the Stanton group uses is that it's GP and TC's private business, and don't we trust them? The problem is that they are being supported by the church and should therefore be accountable to the church. No one can hold them accountable if they don't know how… Read more »
RU still a member of the group? I'm not anymore but I do rmember that the big mouth (KF's description) from SV sent a list of churches that gave him $.
Now I know why my ex was trying to refinance her house. But she was unsuccessful. Seems banks will not lend money to persons who do not work and earn money. Go Figure! Sounds like lots of you are getting ripped off while others just collecting your hard earned dollars. I don't imagine Jesus had his community support his family. Would you buy a used car from GP? No. But the congregation will buy him a car as soon as he asks. Did some one say those are "love offerings"? If the church is so select, it should be spreading… Read more »
welcome back, missed your righteous rantings.
Do not believe anything merely on the authority of your teachers and preachers. Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good ( and reject everything that is not good!)
Christians are only allowed to marry someone in the church and only with their teachers approval.
Hi Wendy, I had heard something about chaperones being necessary when people dated. Can you talk about that rule, or the rules surrounding dating?
Chaperones were common during courtship. Rule #77: Christians don't date. They court.
Anonymous 6:54, I'm not sure of the rules for courting. I was raised in the COC my entire childhood but have never been baptized. I was allowed to date a "worldly" boys starting a few months before I was 18 years old. I'm not sure if other COC kids had the same experience or not. There were some other issues going on in my life at that time that could have played a part in me being allowed to date "worldly" boys at that age.
That reminds me of a JW telling me that I had to look up the word burn and fire to say that God would burn the world with fire.
I would like to comment on these two rules: 1. Christians must not eat food or drink anything but water in their building at any time. 2. Christians must not take food into their building at any time. I realize that rule number 1 is considered an issue that would determine fellowship among not just the Stanton Churches of Christ but the more mainstream 'conservative' churches of Christ but I believe that the Stanton churches have proven by their practices that eating food in a building that believers meet in for worship does not have terrible results. Most of the… Read more »
That is so funny to hear all the rules and exceptions to eating in the building. As if that's what Jesus came to this earth and shed his blood to impart to his followers.
That's exactly the nature of trying to view "law" as the measure of our righteousness. It doesn't work. There will always be exceptions, and then exceptions to those exceptions.
Kevin, could you explain "have you not houses to eat in?" in context? I wrote the post above about the rules concerning eating in the building.
Taken by themselves, they say one thing: 1 Cor 11:22 – What, have ye not houses to eat and to drink in?1 Cor 11:34 – If any man is hungry, let him eat at home. Taken in context, quite another: 1 Cor 11:18-22 – For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it. 19 For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you. 20 When therefore ye assemble yourselves together, it is not possible to eat… Read more »
Thanks Kevin, that makes sense especially based on the fact that the church has proven over and over again that no such problem exists when the church eat's together for a common meal. I never could understand that line of reasoning.
It's really discouraging they use bits and pieces of scriptures to prove their points and make their own rules. Thanks Curious for asking…It does make sense through Kevin's explaination.
I want to take the Clean Bible challenge you posted the other day 🙂
That's because there really was no line of reasoning, just a pulling of the verses out of context as if they were lines in a legal code book of regulations. If my kids recorded every conversation we'd ever had and went back through them with a fine-toothed comb to pull out my "commands, examples, and necessary inferences," they could really misunderstand a lot of things I've said, and I'd be so unhappy with them for missing my heart on so many things. Words are imperfect vehicles of meaning. They can't be understood properly without understanding the context in which they… Read more »
After studying it I could tell, when I was with them, that isn't what it meant, but it was almost sin to dare question anything.
They practically made it a sin if you forgot you had a candy bar in your purse or if your brought food for a member who needs it and it was brought over the threshold of the doorway.
Lynn, they didn't practically make it a sin…they did make it a sin. I'm sure I'm not the only one who heard multiple food confessions over the years. Even recently before I left a young one raised in the church made a food confession. When I first went in around 2007 or so there was a McDs right behind our building. During the break between worship and morning class a bunch of people would go grab something to eat. Well obviously this became something to reprove people about. Even this year we were reprimanded because during the break our teen… Read more »
Now these rules are out of hand and why on earth people follow them is beyond me. I think all the rules make people sneaky and devious like perhaps making love on top of the covers with the lights on eating a Snickers candy bar and washing it down with a Pepsi. I hope you are allowed to laugh and that is not breaking a rule
Anon 10:52 Hahahahahahahaha! Pretty sick in the head when it comes to candy in a parking lot.. This is so stupid… it's qualifying them as freaks! Wow… Thanks for the laugh! Hahaha
The thing is that everyone has to get on their high horse (puffed up) and reprove someone else. Well most people there. Occasionally there's a humble one. Anyway, this comes by example and teaching. Reproof is constant and many times public. If parents are like that with their kids, aren't the kids going to be the same amongst themselves and later with their own families? That church is the same way. So that's why so many people are comfortable reproving YOU when THEIR conscience is bothered. I mean, if you don't want to eat during the break, and it bothers… Read more »
You know those spring toys at parks that kids can ride like a little horse? I remember one of my first park fellowships moms screaming at their kids to get off them. I didn't follow suit. That just got on my nerves. No rocking horse toys allowed either. I just felt like there was constant evil surmising of children! To me, it said more about the thoughts of the parents than anything else.
Second part of this verse –
1 Corinthians 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
All the time we are judged by others' consciences, but that doesn't make me wrong or in sin.
This is so dangerous to make others walk around wondering if they are going to offend anybody and a lot of preachers/teachers have it set up that somebody is going to be reproved because of these picky consciences. This is no way to live your Christianity.
Seeking, this type of stuff on children being held a certain way and park toys etc etc.. To me it comes from a perverted mind (or however I'm trying to explain it here) from ones who have dealt with sex in a strange way in their minds, always thinking everything is sexual and of course in their minds they also have sexual Hang-up etc.. I mean when you make a 6-inch rule of face to face in the marriage bed you have to have some kind of weird sexual hang up.. I think they are all nuts.. But yet it's… Read more »
i thought the Stanton Churches changed their old 'rules' concerning masturbation. Especially the kids and hip thing. Also all the marriage bed rules. Let's be fair here, and I do agree with a lot of what everyone is saying here, but I also know much of what you are laying out here has been changed because they realized it was radical thinking.
Children on hip has not changed. Some of the marriage bed has.
So I'm not the only one with the crazy ex who thinks mentally ill people masturbated too much??!! Lol yeah when my ex's boys would shower if they took longer than 3 min he would start banging on the bathroom door. The girls got like 30 min haha. I definitely know it was because he was hypersexual at a young age and continued throughout his life. He needed/needs the church to control him because he can't do it himself. That's really one of many things my hubby and I have learned since leaving. WE WERE LAZY. We sometimes wanted people… Read more »
Yes, there are fewer rules about the marriage bed but there are stll a few. Chambering (having sex too often) is still taught against. Oral and anal sex is taught against. I'm not sure if they are withdrawable offences. The issue I have with the past teaching is that those rules that have been changed were at one time taught as sin and lots of people were withdrawn from. There were people withdrawn from who had never heard some of the teaching but were withdrawn from because their conscience should have pricked them. This was all taking place while the… Read more »
Anon 8:33. Here's the problem with undoing rules. Unless it's a big deal (marriage issue for example) that's dealt with everywhere some of these little rules stick around. They don't enforce them from the top anymore BUT the older members keep them going because that's all they know. The hip thing was just months ago. Ultimately the issue is the structure/ system of the SCOC and the fact that they aren't really autonomous and don't have elders. Because rule changes for a lot of things happen at the top, it's a big bureaucracy that runs slowly. And that's why God… Read more »
(Suddenly wondering if Anon 7:22 and I share the same ex. It's possible…) lol
Seeking, amen to this: "it's a big bureaucracy that runs slowly. And that's why God didn't set up churches like that. So that alone should tell all of us this isn't The One True Church."
The evidence is crushing that there is no possible way the church is what it claims. Fifty years of bad doctrines and judgments, only pretended unity, scores of failed and dysfunctional marriages, scores of dysfunctional father/daughter, father/son, mother/daughter, and mother/son relationships. It's overwhelming evidence that this sect is not the OTC.
Seeking and are you saying they did change the straddling the hip rule?
I was told that children may be held on the moms hip but outwardly; that is the child's buttocks touching their mom and not inwardly with the child's private touching the mom. Many of the rules about dealing with children came from one person in the Phoenix congregation; the wife of the Mercedes mechanic. Mother superior would watch interactions between child and parent and if there was affection or love being shared she quickly would break it up with some made up rule. Parents were discouraged from showing love and affection toward their children when mother superior was around. Revelations… Read more »
Now correct me if I am wrong but if I made love to my husband after he took a 6 minute shower instead of a 3 minute shower and he was kissing me and whispering sweet nothings in my ear and it was Saturday night I would have to make a public confession to the congregation the next day? Now doesn't this sound ridiculous? And in front of the children no less? This is better than a rated R movie and I wonder how many of them get aroused by listen g to all this while sitting in church? I… Read more »
Yes a lot of those public confessions can really mess with the imagination. With one withdrawal we pretty much as a church had to hear about someone sending very inappropriate pics to a person of the opposite sex. I can only imagine how some people then viewed that person. It really should have stayed private. It only became public because that person wanted help and I guess there wasn't enough repentance so the rest of us had to hear it. Just a really messed up system. And I felt terrible for that person. I tried to stop the withdrawal but… Read more »
I'm saying that I don't recall the hip thing being taught, just that older ones enforced it by correcting those of us who were newer. I am sure teachers knew but it's one of the many "err on the side of caution" things. I do think a lot of these little rules (not all) are being taught privately either directly or by example, and so the SCOC by that way is avoiding the issue of making rules. Or if they preach it, it is with the understanding that it's "the better thing to do". Ultimately what is happening is that… Read more »
This is a shock to me and thinking back I remember a few things that were different than when I my sons over 50 years ago but little did I realize how some things are so whacky and antiquated and seem to focus so much around physical bodies. I always thought they were too strict with the kids and they had to miss out on too much like having any friends from school over like my sons had it was always kids from the church. I did not like certain things but did not want to rock the boat with… Read more »
A code exists concerning children who are living with their boyfriend/girlfriend. Members are instructed not to enter their home as this would be condoning their sin.
It is also taught that a girl living with her boyfriend cannot be in a churchmember's wedding.
It is okay however to have the couple who are living to gather come over to your house and you can go out to dinner in public with the couple you just can't go to their house at all. Ever.
What about when they eventually marry?
Which all those rules are ridiculous and I never bought into them. It should be each members conscience which dictates what to do in those situations. Just because you go into a home of your fornicating children's home does not mean you are condoning it. Never saw the difference if they are in my home or myself in their home. Because their home is where the fornicating takes place. And? Scoc is great at reaching different ones with there silly rules and practices. How do they let their light shine when they rarely inter mingle with those outside of there… Read more »
Anon 6:07 when they marry you can go into there home and even have dinner. Also with baby showers I know my wife won't go to a baby shower if it's out of wedlock. But she'll go be there for the birth of the baby. Make no sence to me. These are opinions being passed down and now consciences are affected or they simply do not go out of fear of being disciplined.
If they marry their house is no longer off limits
And the TWERP thinks I am Strange? HUHI suffered all those rules during 20 yrs of my marriage and it IS THE REASON why a non-member cannot live with a member of this Sex-deranged Cult. THEY ARE NOT NORMAL NOTAT ALL IT'S CULT NOT A CHURCHOnly to protect and provide for my children did I stick it out as long as I did. I've learned through this blog just how SICK & Perverted these leaders are.When I am calling you Perverted PP & the TWERP you know you are crossing the line. You do not know all of my ex's… Read more »
KF, I thought you didn't believe there is an ultimate Judge or Maker.
We're beginning to have an effect on KF! 🙂
What I spoke of is that GP & PP are likely headed for confrontation by those they have abused. When that time comes those "holy-ones" will not be in front of their obedient congregation of followers. They will face US Civil law, ah yes those pesky "worldly" laws. And the judge they will face will not care how many times they prayed to their savior. The laws of Man will apply and they will suffer the fate that they have avoided for decades. Yet finally they shall live in fear of their own beliefs as they have put fear into… Read more »
KF, the worst consequence they have for their harsh and unloving teachings is that none of their family will even become involved in the SCOC. That in itself speaks volumes. Their "greatest work" all for nothing. They can't even convince their own.
Another BIG rule… how could I forget? Christians are required to take notes at all classes, at worship, and at all meetings. This is absolutely mandatory. People watched me and reported on me when I did not take notes. The teaching on this was always the same, mimicked, robotic admonition: "You can't remember everything!" No scripture is given to support the "rule," only the self-styled, opinionated rationalization that, since you "cannot remember everything," of course we must implement compulsory note-taking, so, when you go home to study, you will have dozens of notebooks filled with all the opinions you need… Read more »
One reason for the suggested note taking is so that your notebook can be read and reported back to the teachers so you can be taught on what is written in your notebook. Who reads your notebook? Wives, children, any roommates who are church members. One of the unofficial positions in the church is that of spy for the teacher. You are led to believe that the teachers knowledge of you is the workings of the holy spirit but in fact is the work of church spies. Prove this by writing something bizarre and see if you are taught on… Read more »
LOL Brilliant! I wish we could click 'Like' on these posts!
One of the problems I have in understanding the proverbs is that wisdom is knowledge applied; but the proverbs do not give the base knowledge or the application of that knowledge just the outcome pure wisdom and that makes it difficult to understand at first. If you look for applications for the proverbs many will arise in daily life, but to get a biblical understanding you must take the wisdom of kings and apply it to kings in the bible to see how they applied it. One king to examine is Christ: He told one young man in Matthew 19:21… Read more »
I find in my Christianity that there is a non stop parade of demons that must be first recognized and then fought and then fought again. Crystal meth is a wicked demon that requires great persistence to defeat, anorexia is demon that is equal in strength to any drug addiction, and I find video game addiction is also equal in strength to any other demon. No one is able to defeat a drug addiction on the first try, it takes persistence. I was taught in Mt 12:43-45 that once a demon is cast out it will try and return and… Read more »
Kevin has abandoned this blog like a red headed step child that it has become.
Anon 2:12 do you have a problem with red heads and step children. This comment is nearly 17 months after your classless comment. As you found out Kevin has not abandoned this blog. This blog is going to get out to the multitudes, much quicker than Merie's cult can knock on doors.
LOL, I'd forgotten about that comment. I try not to respond to every troll. 🙂
When Satan tempted Christ he was easily refuted and rejected by Christ. The second time Satan came after Christ (through Judas) he was much stronger and prevailed against Christ and killed him physically. In a Christian's life similar pattern repeats, resist Satan and he will flee from you, but he will come back a second time and a third time and stronger than the time before. You must study and build your faith for the upcoming trials. If Satan can get you to fall Christian beware he will go after your children, he has no mercy when he is trying… Read more »
should say "can't get you to fall"
Solomon wrote in Pr 9:8-11 reprove not a scorner lest he hate thee, and in the new testament we see an example of this when John the baptist reproved Herod for having his brother Phillips wife (Mt 14:4) and Herod wanted to put him to death for it (this is hatred) but Herod was not the only scorner, his wife did also want John the baptist dead, and did have him killed. Emotions are a very powerful force in people lives, and some people feed on emotions just like a drug addict uses drugs. Herod ruled by fear, he was… Read more »
So a couple months ago the older lady teacher where I went gave a ladies class and she went on and on for like 10 minutes about the nylons. I never wear nylons and have refused to buy them for my daughters. It was so annoying. So, still being taught. I tear them when I try to wear them. They are a WASTE of money and most people use nude see-thru ones SO THEY ARE NOT REALLY LEG COVERINGS ANYWAY!!!!
What was her explanation for the mandatory nylons?
"Give of your best to the master." In their minds, this means wearing your most presentable clothes to church or to "the work." Of course, translating this to wearing nylons is purely teaching for doctrines, the commandments of men.
I remember the May meeting it was decided to make it mandatory to wear nylons/socks. Not one scripture was given, just things like "it's a more polished look" and "a finished look". That was it. If anyone has the tapes, they can listen for themselves. It was the May meeting of 2006.
That meeting was one of the things that helped me to determine to finally leave.
Yes, that's the gist of it. But I never considered nylons my best anyway. They roll up and down everytime I sit. Cut off circulation. A few years back I had a preacher's wife talk to me about it. I think I brought it up. She went through similar reasoning. Wearing best. But at the end she just said hopefully in time I would understand.I just think with all the time wasted on this topic, how could I have grown more spiritually? Because wearing pantyhose does not make one more spritual. I just think the constant reproof is necessary for… Read more »
"Hopefully one day you'll understand".. Lol…NO,It's hopefully one day THEY will understand! As they have said that so many times in the past about their petty rules they make up and then turn around and change them after THEY finally understood.. Lol… What a thing to worry about… They pick and choose clothing of their own kind along with an older generation nonsense mind and hang ups they deal with in their minds. Wonder what they would come up with if nylons became a thing of the past..too funny
Nylons were a topic in my house last Tuesday as my wife had noticed my youngest daughter whom just graduated from HS this past Saturday. She did not have any nylons on with her heals so her skin could be seen on her feet. After a brief back and forth as I stayed out of it but was ammused, this one I could not back my wife up. My daughter knows it's a stupid rule as I told her to ask her mother for scripture. So I imagine it's the modest apparel is used. So if true it's nylons that… Read more »
Something else I'd heard about attire was for a male to always wear a tee shirt under another tee shirt. So you could not wear just one tee shirt and I'm not talking undershirt. This was told to me by the preacher in Tacoma. Portland had never heard this one before. Anyone else ever hear of such a "rule"? Preacher in Tacoma said he was always taught it.
The churches have different rules on their Petty man-made rules.. Arizona and Portland were different
I was taught that men were to wear undershirts and not "A shirts" but "T shirts" because this is what the military did and the man who taught it was a military man. However with 110+ degrees days in Phoenix this was just not practical and the military man who was the teacher starting wearing "A shirts" himself after sweating with a "t shirt" undershirt.
re – 21. Christian men must not attend the birth of their child (this was considered 'indiscreet'.
Merie taught that it was a woman's lib move to include the man in the watching the birth. As it wasn't like this before and it came from women pushing their husbands to be there if they loved them.
Birth is a natural thing. Of course this is another thing coming from a sexed mind. This kind of THINKING gives them no right to have this kind of control. I'm still hot over a woman having to ask if she could get a hysterectomy. They don't just hand hysterectomys out for crying out loud. They are so sick no wonder they hide from the world in their little holes
I'd love to see a talk show on all this like there was on scientology. Please explain where are these rules are in the Bible and not from a crazy ladies mind. LOL! I remember the first time I ever heard Merie on a tape.. I thought my goodness all these people who have a fearful mind are being brainwashed from all this screaming.. I sat there and laughed listening to her, but I could see how this would actually brainwash a person that is depressed, not knowing where they're going in life.. This is how my other half entered… Read more »
Anon 6:20 yes a talk show would be a great idea. For myself commenting on this blog is just the beginning. I want to see this cult exposed to the entire nation. How can that be done? Social media, local media especially in communities where they have congregations. I know I could easily get the Portland congregation to go bye bye I will have the support to make that happen. Bottom line the public and members especially those who are attending unknowingly about what this cult is about need to be educated before more famalies are altered, damaged or destroyed.
So many peoples do research now. I research everything. Hopefully anyone thinking of joining will eventually see this
Anon 7:33 if only I was as wise as you 20 years ago to do my research and not fall to the cults deceitful recruiting practices. Not giving full disclosure of what they teach and expectations.
Craig, there was never much to really research on this church in the past as they hide everything even from the internet… this Blog has been the most amazing thing I have seen.. It had been a couple years since I searched and I decided to plunk in the Evangelist name and Merie's name and this was all at the top of the search… I was quite tickled.. I kept searching since the time I left the church 8 or 9 years ago.. and was able to find a few things here and there on the internet by searching the… Read more »
Anon 9:57 that's great I enjoy reading your posts. You know me? But I can't recall who you are. Haha it's not like we had a thousand members. Haha not even 100. More like 30. Portland numbers have decreased every since KG and MG left. I know they do not gauge their success by numbers only, yet I know new converts are huge. In Portland if your lucky to get 1 a year I guess you're doing well. Haha. 2 in 8 years now.
Anon 9:57, looks like the SEO is working, glad you found the blog. 😉
Craig, I know you. I wasn't in the church long. Just long enough to shake things up LOL. But I knew about the church and all its crazy doings for many many years as I was friends with a former member/member. I didn't realized the depth of it all though back then, but I would say I knew alot more than most going in. Still slapping myself for stepping foot in there. How long ago did KG and MG leave? I'm not sure if they were there when I was. I'm trying to place who they are
Okay, you were wise to get out quickly. KG and MG left in 1998 to start the Columbus, Georgia congregation. I have great respect for them and their family. Wonderful people.
Problem is they say as is correct that they do not have a website. This is said at there door knocking. If there would be away to set up a website such as the door knocking coc and then lead those who inquire to this blog could help educate some of those they do come into contact with.
I do search engine optimization and search marketing for a living. I designed this site to be relevant for many of the keywords people would be using to search for the group.
To take this site a step further in that direction, I would need to create a page for each of the 35 congregations, with tips for distinguishing each one from the legit churches in the area. This is something that can be done as I get time.
Aw that's great Kevin. Let me add to your 35. They have the satellite congregations. Gulfport, Mississippi. They have two now in Atlanta. East and west Atlanta. I believe the east is Stone Mountain. Anderson, South Carolina. Spartanburg, South Carolina. If I missed one maybe someone can help me out. Thanks Kevin
What is a satellite congregation?
A satellite congregation is one that is near a more established congregation. That way it's easier for the new one to get help and still fellowship with the established one. It's also a great way for some to get leadership positions without having to necessarily give up things as has been the practice (family, home, job, close friends). Carnal stuff, you know. 😉
Seeking, thank you 🙂
Funny everyone puts their heads together they can come up with more creative ways to expose this very dysfunctional cult. I was talking to an understanding friend/grandmother of mine in Portland and planting a seed in that area. We are going to meet so I can share more with her as she knows my grandchildren and family and would never want to see anything happen to them or Craig and his wife. We just have to keep praying and not keep our heads buried in the sand so to speak!
Not sure how the word funny got in my comment. Jo
I shared this website again with a friend in Portland who volunteers with the poor and homeless and other outreach work. She is a Christian and also active in her church and hopefully will share for me in her bible study. Slowly but surely…
Thank you you for all the discussions on singles who may or may not be living together and why members do not go to their homes,etc. I obviously do not believe the sameway and I think unconditional love for ours children,grandchildren comes first. I have a son that passed away at age 33 and would love to visit him one more time. Someone said after being I this church that members begin to show no emotions so maybe that is why they can justify these rules and codes? In our case an innocent baby is being born soon and I… Read more »
It's true that members come to deaden their emotions, at least that's what they think they are doing. What they are really doing is deadening their consciences. I believe they confuse the two.
I watched it happen slowly but surely! Very sad to see it! When I saw a flicker of emotion reminded me of what use to be…
Yes wow that is exactly what happens! One of my teens, after telling this one about a very difficult time when I was young, was quiet. I asked him his opinion and he said "I don't care". I sat stunned n remembered that very often one of my older kids raised in Merie's church did the same thing. "I don't care" while common in teens, was very common among them when it came to others. I asked why he said that and he said well you are just fine now so it doesn't matter. They are slowly being taught to… Read more »
I saw the members did not love each other but rather the leader, preacher or teacher. Slowly the local leader became the center of the new members life replacing all family and friends. Even other church members were ignored in an attempt to get some attention and approval from the local leader. I thought my first teacher was an oppressor and tried to ignore him but he turned me into the enemy of the congregation with his influence and control over all the other members. Not everyone believed in Hitler as the savior of Germany but went along anyways because… Read more »
Yes I see this and now that you have validated it I knew I was right. Just praying that for those out will see the light of Christ and their hearts will heal from their abusive relationship in this cult.
When you criticize someone else one of the implied meanings is "I am better than you." This is why those with the superiority complex love to criticize others it gives them the feeling they crave so much and that is the feeling of superiority over others. The arrogant never go away you will have to deal with them all of your life but if you understand what drives them then they become easier to manage. The desire to be number one in any given area is their idol. To manage the arrogant you must learn to do a paradigm shift.… Read more »
I understand what you are saying Kevin, and I agree that members of Merie's group sometimes confuse emotion with conscience. They also confuse emotion with zeal. They will "zealously" rebuke ones because it personally affected them emotionally, or physically. For example in the Tampa/Lakeland congregation-someone would go to him for counsel, and then the teacher would spend the next few classes intensely rebuking about whatever it was that he talked about with that individual. And I do mean intensely! It was a knee jerk kind of reaction, based on how he felt about it. We were yelled at for watching… Read more »
I agree Debbie! You have an excellent way of reasoning and your sincerity shines through your writing. I am so thankful for this blog!
Thanks for adding, Debby. I find your comments very insightful.
Kevin, good change on the left side columns (Merie said/ Gary said).
Thanks for the insight, Debby. It's so helpful having the perspective of people who were in the sect so long. I'm also thankful that you and others have been able to come forward under yoir own names. I do understand the need for anonymity for people still dealing with a spouse or family members who could face repercussions. But I think the most powerful testimonies are the ones where former members are able to go public, just because people who knew them or knew of them can see their spiritual credibility.
Seeking, yes—the more I thought about those quotes directly from Merie's typewriter, the more I realized how important they are to get onto the front page. Thanks for reading!
I had a short visit with someone who is out of the church many years and read the blog years ago. She still does not open up much about what the church has done to her except for how it has ruined the mother/daughter relationship she has as the mother is controlled by the cult and preacher/teacher. It is so sad to see this but now I understand it more but feel helpless except to give encouragement. Stanton is the only church/cult background she has and so now she shys away from any church. I am sure there are many… Read more »
Anon 10:53, my husband and I were just having this conversation how the worst thing is for some of these leaders whose own adult kids won't go anywhere because the SCOC has totally caused them to reject God. That's the worst consequence they will face. They have made God appear so unmerciful as they are that their own kids will end up in eternal torment because they despise Him.
That's the ultimate reap what you sow. I pray a lot of those hurt by Merie and her minions heal and look for a just and merciful God instead.
Kevin, I too want to thank you for putting those quotes on the front page! But what I want to remind everyone is that the leaders in the group will all agree with what Merie said! They will nod and say that is what they believe and teach too!However, if you believe that and then go ahead and actually do what Merie said, you will find it's a very different story. You will be labeled, as Merie said, and called and treated as a troublemaker. You may even find yourself treated as if you are withdrawn from, or actually get… Read more »
Don't confuse me with the facts? I found it was don't confuse me with the scriptures. I asked many a question of my teacher and was told "don't you think God is going to work through me to lead the congregation?" The scriptures were not to be followed but rather the teacher was more important than the scriptures. My teacher had an insider and outsider leadership model. If you were one of his insiders in the congregation you could do no wrong; if you were and outsider from his group within the church you could do no right. I watched… Read more »
I would add stay away from all of these churches/cults as they are evil. Stop and think….no wonder they do not want you to enter another church as they do not want you to see love,inspiration and joy and hope. No Christian movies or books.
One characteristic that I saw that deeply disturbed me was sadism. Sadism is defined as the ability to derive pleasure from inflicting pain, suffering, or humiliation upon others. I would watch my teacher belittle, insult, or humiliate others and then stand and watch the other person for their reaction, and when they reacted with discomfort he would smile. This is pure evil, joy from others pain. Leaders in the SCOC are protected from criticism by saying those that criticize leadership are murmurers. The leaders are free to use and abuse the lower members with little repercussions until it reaches a… Read more »
Fortunately some of the things you experienced in Phoenix are not the norm in other congregations. The preacher from Albuquerque has not been over phoenix for many years. He is still in the church but I am not sure if he is preaching and he has moved away from Phoenix to a congregation in the southeast. The long-time female teacher was withdrawn from for oppression and has made herself right. I'm not defending the church doctrines or the way the church operates but trying to bring you up to speed.
And they can't see how sick in the head they are and how their minds function on the things mentioned above.. And members stay.. This I will never understand..
Thank you for the update; I knew of the preacher from Albuquerque's departure after I watched his youngest son being interviewed on the evening news about why someone would dump a body by his house. The preacher from Albuquerque had quite a disdain for white people greeting them with disgust but greeting the black members with joy; I believe he went to the all black congregation in the south. I too wondered what binds people to such abusive cults and it is simple to explain. In the recruitment and indoctrination phase the new member is loved bombed until they fall… Read more »
Wonder why the king GP can't understand the simplest things said here.. They would even make sense to a child… GP'S mind can't think clearly on all this.. He's been going on Merie said so much he's lost.. When I was in the church I did something Merie did and was told I couldn't.. I really laughed when they told me Merie did alot of things we don't know why she did.. They are running I circles clueless.. But basically they didn't like the idea of what I was doing because they wanted to control me more than anything even… Read more »
Going back to a friend who told me to ask scoc members to f they died right now would they go to heaven/paradise. The friend also mentioned songs that the scoc sings such as blessed assurance. What kind of assurance do they have doubting at any moment if they'd be saved or not. Also the friend made s good point with the songs they sing they'd have the writers all condemned to hell yer they sing their songs. Interesting.
Visiting Two more friends in two days and passed on the website to both of them. They have known myself and my sons since the 1970's. they are both Christians and have watched movies of cults but now my story brings it close to home as they now know what is going on in regards to no holidays among other things. Remember to share about this blog to as many people you can. Pass it on! When I started reading a few short weeks ago I have learned to understand their peculiar ways and why! All the while they think… Read more »
I just read this article, wow so far Kevin you mentioned 81 men laws or commandments of men but let me tell you something : so far are more than 81 and you right in every single one that you mentioned , because some others came to my mind ;as well every law or commandments of men are subject to change if a Christian is a child of a teacher. For example a man is allowed to talk to another Christian if he has some requirements but is he is the son of a teacher , the requirements could change… Read more »
There does seem to be some nepotism in the group. And yes, there are definitely a lot more than 81 “rules of men” in reality. I’m glad your eyes are open!
Some new manuscripts have been discovered with some additional verses in 2 Opinions Chapter 3. In addition, they are now offered in the Modern Pharisaical Translation (MPT).