Thank you, Jeff, for your letter detailing your story. I’m sorry for your experiences. If believers are to show Christ to one another as well as to a lost world, this certainly doesn’t seem like the way to do it. Thank you for being discreet (proper usage of the word) about names so this doesn’t become about personalities, but about the church’s culture.
I want to encourage you to find a church family who will take the time to get to know you, and with whom you can share your struggles freely without fear of retribution.
I was first baptized in 1983 when I was 17 years old. Mentally I was still a child. Yes, I made a lot of mistakes, but instead of helping me I got a lot of rebukes and was withdrawn from for basically talking too much. A talebearer. It was easier to shut you up with withdrawal than to work with you. Eventually, almost every teacher was either withdrawn from for false teaching and/or fell away. Because of the way people were treating each other, I left after about 3 years of it. I came back in around 1998/9.
I came back strong. I learned a lot and studied a lot. I caught up a lot by listening to tapes of talks and May weeks. I started seeing a lot of what this congregations biggest problem was. Their lack of love for each other. Yes, they were great in greeting people when they got together, but not where it counted when people were in need. There was a great absence in moral support and members would pick and choose who they would give physical support to.
(I am trying to do this without cluttering this up with specific details.)
I was told that a preacher from Portland was sent to us to help with the lack of love situation, but that didn’t work. Him and his wife eventually fell away. A preacher from down south was sent to replace him, but they made the situation worse. He stood by a motto of “don’t ask the church could do for you, but what you could do for the church” whenever I would ask for help because of my infirmity. I saw no love in his wife at all. Even when this preacher’s own son was preaching he mentioned in a sermon that when his wife was out for a due to her pregnancy that nobody even called her.
In this congregation it was taught that those who have the infirmities and miss classes or worship are supposed be the ones to reach out and not to expect the congregation to help, unless I ask for it. Are we not told to support the weak and bear one another’s burdens?
Not too long after I came my spine started deteriorating badly. I had to bring a different chair a the problem was from my tailbone up. I eventually started missing classes and personal work. Then started the constant teaching to push the flesh. I heard that so much that I at times would avoid people to keep from hearing it. When I would call to let somebody know I wasn’t going to able to make it, most of the time it would be met with pushing the flesh to go.
In the late 90′ in order for me to go to work I had to take 2 800 mg of Ibuprofen and a Vicodin. I was seeing so many doctors and would up in the emergency room at least four times. I am now on disability and have a very hard time doing anything.
When the congregation saw that I was making it sporadically then the teachings and classes and sermons start being focused on me. I would be compared to other members in how if they could do it then so could I. I was compared to an elderly woman in another congregation who comes with her oxygen tank. I was compared to another sister who had one compressed disc who came and laid down in the cry room and got the disc decompressed. I have 3 compressed discs, 7 discs that are damaged, sciatica, stenosis, degenerative disc disease, degenerative arthritis, and scoliosis.
I was constantly treated like I didn’t have these problems. I never asked for special treatment nor did I expect it. All I asked for was that my own brethren would show some empathy, keep in contact with me, and share with me what I missed in classes. It turned out pretty bad. It was taught, preached, and even brought out in talks to other congregations that I was self centered, selfish, and stand offish.
There is a lot that happen in the years, but for time and space sake I will keep this from getting long. You can from my other letters things that happen.
In all of this I couldn’t fathom why people would choose to stand at a distance and continually tell you to push yourselves and not lift a hand to be there for a brother/sister. I was not the only one this was done to. An elderly sister we had eventually quit coming because of the constant badgering to push the flesh.
I was threatened with withdrawal if I didn’t quit bring up that the brethren need to do more for each other in situations like this. That preacher now denies even saying it.
It got to the point that I started ignoring the brethren that were always trying to drive it into me that my pushing and going is more important than what I was going through. It got to the point that it was being said that I think I control the corner on pain and that I am only thinking of myself. All I ever wanted is support from my brethren in what I was going through. The two biggest things I ever asked for was that people would call me every once in a while and to share with me what I missed in classes. What I got was people showing up just to tell me repeatedly to push the flesh. I got so tired of it that I was ignoring my phone when certain people called. That was brought out too. I asked if people could just show up and share the scriptures with me and was told that they can’t do that. My wife even heard that one.
The rest of the congregation started following suit in believing that I wasn’t accepting teaching and eventually it was like I was on withdrawal as most people wouldn’t talk to me and my family. At two fellowships my children were on the children’s blanket that they get fed on and all the other children were fed, except my two. I had to get up and make their food. This was even done in front of one of the evangelists.
I couldn’t take this anymore and started reaching outside this congregation. I knew one of the preachers from a CA congregation and told him everything. When he inquired about it our preacher from the south told him that nothing is going on. The preacher from the south’s wife told me that and that the preacher from CA will believe them over me because they have more status than me.
I didn’t stop there. I reached out to the evangelist in CA. He ignored my letter. I emailed a couple more times only to be ignored. Eventually I sent him one stating that this email must not be the right one only to be replied by him that he spoke to a certain preacher here about it and was just going to let them handle it. So, I told him that I would contact the other evangelist and he said go a head. That evangelist was coming to see us anyway and made it a point to talk to us about this. What a mistake that was.
That evangelist held a meeting with the older members and myself. I brought out how I was rebuked basically for following that evangelist’s wife’s counseling, which should be murmuring, and nothing was done to that preacher. The evangelist told me that after reading my letter that it seemed that it was all just about me like it was self centered. I brought out how that because of my spine I had asked if people wouldn’t shake my hand so hard and was said that I was rude about it and this evangelist said that I probably was. After this meeting he took me aside and practically told me too get a job and that I had too much time on my hands like I was a busy body. I’m disabled. That Sunday sermon this evangelist nailed me to the floor comparing me to [Snip]. I even told him that one of the preachers threatened me over a matter, but that got nowhere.
These brethren think they can just show up at people’s homes whenever they feel like it. I had asked that before anybody comes over if they could call first as I was on some heavy medication that made me drowsy and a lot of times I was in such pain that I didn’t want to see anybody. Also, my wife was fallen away and she didn’t like them. It made for an uncomfortable situation. At times we would go out to McDonald’s or somewhere to meet, but couldn’t all the time because in too much pain. Well, they couldn’t accept that. They believed that if they felt like stopping by anytime they want, that you should accept them. A preacher even brought out in a sermon he did on “A Man of God” stating that he that doesn’t follow the teachings is not a man of God. He even included that if I don’t allow people to show up when they feel like it I am not a man of God. I told this to the evangelist and that to make such a remark you are making that a law, but that was ignored.
Kevin, this only scratches the surface of the years of this treatment. I would have to write a book in order to get everything down.
Because of what I was going through I have set into motion a sequence of events that will move us from this state to another.
I have stopped going since because I practiced this:
Matthew 18:16-18 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
I took it to the preacher and was almost withdrawn from at one time. I have talked with many of the preachers and teachers only to be told I am in the wrong for not pushing the flesh and being selfish for looking for support from my brethren. I took it to the outside preacher and two evangelists only to be ignored and have it backfire on me to where now most of the congregation treats me like I am withdrawn from.
I have wrestled with it for quite some time, so that I can’t be happy here. I love the Bible and talking scriptures. I am reminded almost every time we go about what I need to be doing. My wife and kids saw this. Even the children of other Christians saw this and disagreed with how they were treating me and don’t want to join.
I keep asking them what sin did I commit in looking to my brethren in my times of need.
I support this message.
I really think that the mainstream members do not know the truth of what is going on. It is dealt with between the preachers/teachers and brought out vaguely to the rest of the congregation minus the facts and the victim is painted as "disobedient". So, the congregation just follows a long blindly following the preachers/teachers.
Agreed…the secrecy they have is mind numbing. We all know why they have to keep everything a secret. What they are doing is wrond. And quite frankly, they know it. They are living in a constant state of fear of being exposed.
God knows and it will catch up with them and hopefully before many more children of all ages are damaged and families destroyed. Is this abuse going on in all of them?
Concerned outsider. I know Portland had child abuse and when I brought it up to a preacher that the authorities needed to be called he said not to worry about it things would be dealt with. No authorities were called. They handle this stuff internally. Hoping we all do what we can to expose this cult. A cult watch list they need to be on. I feel so sorry for the new recruits who are love bombed and have no idea what they are getting into. GP is a known destroyer of famalies. Isn’t that right GP?
@ Craig Cusick…again…i concur. Well said. I lost count over the years of families broken up. A child should NEVER have to grow up in such paralyzing fear. And many times, terror. Ive kept thos crap buried and concealed and boxed up in a tiny little box. Im tired of being ao consumed inside by these things. Im going to tell you UNEQUIVOCALLY…the fear and intimidation tactics are dead to me. It is what it is. Maybe its time to shed the anonimity now and come forward and address these issues. I can tell you now, my father wont step… Read more »
Many in this sect have suffered. When speaking of abuse and trauma- those that afflict are also the afflicted. Many need to know that this type of living is NOT NORMAL. And it's really hard and anxiety-inducing to begin to try to heal bc in doing that you realize how not normal it is and you begin to feel disconnected from reality. What can one connect to when all they've known is trauma? I believe it's very important to find someone who is trained to talk to.. counselor, therapist, (real) minister, etc Somehow the SCOC has also maintained this wall… Read more »
If you think GP would address or even feel remorseful, think again. He's already on a talk very clear that he doesn't care what he did to his own children because it was for the furtherance of the gospel. But really it was the furtherance of his huge ego. Short man syndrome probably plays a part it in his massive ego.
I've always thought that about him too.. The short man syndrome.. It honestly is a real thing.. Very first time I met him I laughed inside.. And I have a good first impression of people.. He creeped me out
all he could say was this…verbatim, "because they told me to.."
Jude Brooks — you've just described the 'Nuremberg Defense,' which would essentially make those who practice it in this cult…spiritual Nazis.
Of course, the level of culpability increases as you go up the hierarchy from those at the bottom, who were "just following orders," to those at the top, who issued those orders, not unlike what happened in the Third Reich.
Good observations…Nuremberg Defense is certainly a good parallel. I have always been interested in the events surrounding WW2 and always wondered what kind of mindset it takes to see innocents being attacked and do nothing to help them, as many of the German people did– didn't harm anyone directly, just saw it all happening and were too afraid to stand up against that evil regime. Although this is certainly at a much smaller scale, the mindset it similar. Watched Shrek a bit lately and all I can think to compare here is Lord Farquaad ("You think he's compensating for something?"–… Read more »
There were Germans who did resist the third reich and they were hunted down and killed by the gestapo. Two college kids, brother and sister, published a pamphlet questioning the methods of the third reich and they were hunted down and summarily executed by the gestapo the next day, no trail, no appeal, just hanged in front of their college. The Nazi high command believed the best way to rule the German people was through oppression and terror. There are no modern day equivalents to the Nazi's and any comparison of someone today only lessens the evil done by the… Read more »
Interesting and what I’ve read on this blog is Merie and her then husband attending communist seminars.
I agree, Anon 713. There are parallels but truly no comparison.
Notice how long it's been since the cowardly preachers have have dared to show themselves here? They are still silently peering into what is being said. It's their addiction, but they do not want to be known. They want to know who these anonymous critics are. They want to know what are other's saying about them outside of their control. But their silence is an indication that they are losing that control. They used to get in and insult or demean participants on the blog for their opinions and stories about the leadership's behavior. It's making them boil over now… Read more »
If you know of someone abusing food stamps or welfare it is very simple to report it to DSHS and sign the letter. I do not think God would look kindly on someone who is involved in One True?church or fellowships 6 days a week plus study time and then be involved in welfare fraud. It is called being a whistleblower.
I have been in the church for decades and I have never known of any welfare of food stamp fraud, in fact I know of some examples of people who, after being baptized, turned themselves in for welfare/food stamp fraud which they committed before baptism. Not that the church teaches to turn yourself in for all crimes committed before baptism, but I think these people had been receiving benefits prior to AND at the time of their baptism based upon fraudulent information so they turned themselves in to reset the benefits to the correct amounts.
Jo, yes it can be done because they would have to explain they cannot work and the welfare system will not go for that.. This is what I'm saying, if a person really wants to put the effort into it there are ways to cause problems for the church in many many different ways on the things they are doing . In order to stay on food stamps that long you have to skirt around being able to find a job and know how to play the game.. To me what they are doing is no different than lying.. The… Read more »
And then they can try to explain that the food stamp system is there for their benefit put there by God LOL that would go over quite well
DS from Arizona for sure was committing Food Stamp fraud, whether he knew it or not. He had an attitude and demeanor that indicated he believed he was above the laws of man.
Basically when it comes down to it they all are because they surely don't explain they can't work all the demanded days they need to be at the church.. Lol.. I've gotten food stamps I know many people on them and I know how it works
I believe there is a difference between taking advantage of the food stamp program by working the bare minimum and fraud. Working the bare minimum in order to receive maximum food stamp allotment may not be in keeping with the scriptures that tell men to work to provide for their family but it isn’t fraud. It’s legal to milk the system by working less than one is able, not that I believe in doing so.
Yes, I agree. There is definitely a dysfunctional culture in both leaders and members at Stanton. Leaders want to carefully control the flow of information into and out of the sect creating a culture of manipulation and control. Members seek the approval of leaders, creating a culture of being mere followers. I just want intellectual freedom for these folks. I want them to think for themselves without fear of what man will say. If they choose to stay in Stanton with their eyes open, and can do so while being free to study the scriptures and share their dissenting opinions,… Read more »
Emotional freedom too. The method used to enslave people to a sect is to attack their self esteem and reduce it to a such a low level and then make the members emotionally dependent upon the leaders. Someone who is emotionally dependent and has high self esteem is a threat to leadership. Pilate saw that Christ was delivered out of envy. What did Christ have that the Pharisee's envied him for? His position of authority? Was it that he was emotionally independent and thus free from their peer pressure and other manipulations? Something to think about.
correction: Someone who is emotionally independent not emotionally dependent
I saw this as well. the preacher from the south eventually said, from the pulpit, that hew was through with me and was not responsible for me anymore. He wasn't getting me to bend towards what he wanted so he gave up. When this is done in front the congregation they can tend to follow suit when their minds are to follow the leadership. My will was to strong. This preacher wrote me an email filled with accusations that were so far fetched that I almost just disregarded it, but I was hoping to try to set things straight. That… Read more »
Yesterday, I happen to run into one of the Tacoma members. She was brought in the church and has been a member for quite some time. We talked for a little bit. Come to find out that she knew nothing about my departure. In her eyes I just fell away. I told her that I haven't. I still study and pray constantly. It's just not happening there. She tried convincing me to come back, even to the tune that she said that things have changed and that they are not the same as before. I expressed to her some of… Read more »
There are so many healthy churches to choose from Lynn. Why keep torturing yourself by looking back and not looking forward to the joy you can have with God and His everlasting love? Instead of being a victim you can be a survivor with love in your heart. They will not change but you can and only you. It is amazing how you can grow in God’s love ….whatever you do stay away from all Church of Christ’s ….do not continue to live in the past…….just saying! May God Bless you!
As I get up to start my day this morning it is cold and I think of Proverbs 20:4 that says the sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold and I think that as the proverbs are abstract and can be applied many different ways I think that cold is a good description of many people I have dealt with. I in the past would stop working when I had to deal with cold hearted people. Today I understand that I must not let cold hearted people stop me in my service to my God or else I… Read more »
My heart goes out to you Jeff. I believe they got it backwards…no surprise…it seems they are the self centered ones. As a single woman back in the '80's, I know how many times I was made to feel like I was putting others out if I needed help. But was expected to "jump" when the preacher thought I should..And yes, the sermons about me followed! .Not all congregations were that way. Up in northern CA, the brethren were very helpful to me and others. BUT if someone basically did or said something odd, they were slowly pushed aside and… Read more »
The people marveled when Jesus sat with the sinners instead of the higher classed. He stated this – Mark 2:16-17 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. It seems that those who need help the most are pushed away and/or ignored. To me… Read more »
I have been doing a lot of thinking lately. I have been thinking of my studies, my congregation, the things they have said, the articles that I have read in the "Truth Magazine", from the 50's and 60's, and the things that have been written here by other Christians and their stories. I was told, by the preacher from the south, that I didn't know what Christianity was all about since I wouldn't accept what was being taught. I do know that what I was studying was not what was being executed as to how the members were to be… Read more »
Are you still in the Stanton Churches of Christ? If not, how is the congregation where you are now attending taking care of your needs?
Amen, Lynn. While I do realize that I am never less alone than when I am alone, as God is greater company than any person, or any group of people, yet still we are supposed to be unified and be attuned to others needs. Since I am excommunicated, I have plenty of time to experiment and see exactly what being one's brothers keeper is all about. Who is our brother? Our brother is primarily those of the faith, but it is, in reality, any human we know of who has a need, particularly those we come in direct contact with.… Read more »
Is it not true that those who need love the most, deserve it the least? You are right, Lynn. The only time my entire family was invited over the preachers home for dinner was when I was about to be withdrawn from, and perhaps the preacher wanted to be sure of my parents and my siblings allegiance. I was never called by preachers or other members to ask how was I doing. I will be honest, it is not in my nature to do this to others either, and it is a habit I am trying to break. I cannot… Read more »
I am no longer a part of my congregation. I could not keep going to a congregation that treated people like they do. Also, I don't like a lot of attention. I like my solitude. What made this hard was seeing the contradiction in how the congregation was handling this. While a lot of them constantly made the crux of their talking to me about pushing my self to reach out to them and make it to classes, they would also preach from the pulpit that it was being selfish to look to the congregation for help. We were constantly… Read more »
To continue from above…. There was a couple times that I came to the congregation for help with a bill. One time for rent when I kept getting injured at work and was light on pay checks and another time, years later, for help on a utility bill. It wasn't that the congregation didn't find me worthy to not help, but their practice was to interrogate you to see if there was anybody else, outside the church, you could get the help from. They wanted you to exhaust all worldly means before asking the church for help. It wasn't just… Read more »
In conjunction with what you were saying about the leaders making you outsource at all costs…i can clearly concur. It was the same way in Eugene/Springfield. They would constantly deny the babes and others that they didn't deem "worthy" of receiving and monetary help. But when the leaders needed or wanted money it was granted instantly. I remember a young woman in eugene, single mother, with 2 very young girls was struggling to pay her rent and bills because the church was coming down on her hard for working too much and basically accusing her of forsaking her "duties" at… Read more »
Jude it's interesting that more than 3 decades later you can still remember this instance where this young single mother was treated so unfairly. These types of unkind and unfair practices are still around. I've mentioned on here another single mom I knew with multiple children who often was judged harshly. The year before I left I spoke to "counsel" about why, after 5 years living as a single Christian, this poor girl couldn't go to yet another meeting. Same thing every time. Her kids aren't in order. Her life isn't in order blah blah blah. I told "counsel" if… Read more »
Dost thou love life, than do not squander time, for that is the stuff life is made of. Time is worth more than money, for money we can always get back, time we never can. While poverty has been part of the human existence since the beginning of time and is not to be despised, my experience has been that our diligence in pursuing our work is related to our financial prosperity. "In all labor there is profit". This means if we aren't profiting, we must not be working. This was written by one of the wealthiest men of all… Read more »
There are times in people's lives where they have to reach out for help. This is one of the reasons why God didn't make all Christians rich. He wanted us to depend on him through prayer and faith. I also believe that in many ways God helps us through the workings of others. He wants us to be there for each other. I'm not talking that we take advantage and only depending upon other people for spiritual and/or physical needs. I am speaking of little or no help offered at all when I see somebody in need. Complete indifference. This… Read more »
Submarines are never intense, Martin.
Lynn, I believe you to be a broken toy.
Please elaborate.
I forgot where I claimed they were, anonymous 11/21 @0945. If it's to be, it's got to be me. God helps those who help themselves. Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote an excellent essay called, "Self Reliance". “You might be poor, your shoes might be broken, but your mind is a palace.”― Frank McCourt, Angela's Ashes Content: Happy enough with what one has or is. Job went through is circumstances to learn to accommodate himself to God's will. He learned that God has higher ideas than his expectations. Paul's words to the church at Phillippi: Not that I speak in respect of… Read more »
This I recall to my mind, therefore have I hope.[22] It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.[23] They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.[24] The LORD is my portion, saith my soul; therefore will I hope in him.[25] The LORD is good unto them that wait for him, to the soul that seeketh him.[26] It is good that a man should both hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the LORD.[27] It is good for a man that he bear the yoke in his youth.[28] He sitteth alone… Read more »
Lynn should take a lesson from Og Mandino.
There seems to be to much indifference towards how we treat each other. Instead of acknowledging and dealing with it it seems easier to tell the offended to just ignore it. The scriptures, though, speak different than that. If we are to live by the words of the scriptures and will be judged by them, then we should learn and adhere to them. Martin, you said this, "He did not command us to enforce others treat us how we wish to be treated". Jesus said this – Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand,… Read more »
If KS helped even those in other congregation, why didn't she intercede for you? She had the power to do so.
Lynn, I think that ones are missing the point that you are trying to make. The point that if the Stanton group is the only group who is right with God, then why are some of those who are in authority doing unchristian things? Why is it allowed to continue?Jesus told us to beware of false prophets, for they are ravenous wolves among us. He wasn't speaking of ones outside of the church, but ones who are inside it. The wolves are in the church, along with the sheep.Ones should be sounding the warning that there are wolves, but they… Read more »
Of course, what the Stanton group leaders like to say is that they are "only going by the scriptures." Really? I used to believe that, and took them at their word! After awhile though, I realized I hadn't tested that out!So I took a couple of things they teach, and studied them out. What I found was that most of their "rules" don't have a scripture to support it. For example, at a May meeting it was determined that we can only break the bread one time. In his talk at the meeting, GP stated "we can prove Christ only… Read more »
@ AnonNov 22, 2015 at 6:32 AM
I contacted GP and he ignored me for awhile at first, but then said he was supporting the 'preacher from the south".
This is a topic that shares so much indifference that it is hard to get people to comprehend it. Yet, scripture dictates that it is something that serious.
The COC is an interesting place, when it comes to helping their own. In the Stanton, CA congregation the teacher KS was more than willing to help those in need, even those in other congregations she had only heard about secondhand. In Phoenix we were told by WP, the preacher from Albuquerque, the a member had spent all of his money buying a very expensive watch and then had no money for food and asked for help from the Church and Merie said that even though he was foolish with his money the church should still help him because he… Read more »
In order for all things to be considered, I know of one christian's child who was tragically killed in a car accident. KS and Stanton paid for the headstone of a child they did not know well. DS has repeatedly taken the fatherless children and taken them on camping trips, to the Zoo, to Imax. He once paid, anonymously, the P G & E bill of a member whose husband had left her. They are extremely giving. DS's children are models of love, as they have been loved. I would go to their home, and their children, without having been… Read more »
What you see in your congregation does not tale away from what is done in other congregations. You are right that there are good deeds, but what isn't realized is that there are some helps that are done aren't the same as others. You could see a lot of fellowships, people happy, smiling, and greeting each other, but there is another kind of help that people are indifferent to. Taking kids on camping trips does not equate to taking the time to be there for all the things listed in Mat 25 or bearing one another's burdens. The men had… Read more »
I completely agree, Lynn. I think it is unconscionable that you weren't given the details of the classes you were unable to make. It should be child's play to record all but the worships. I do not think the good they do outweighs indifference, but I do think a fair judge considers all points. Christ has the height of the law of love, but rarely are any of us able to live up to the supreme standard, and so "blessed are the merciful, for they shall find mercy". I would really like to hear TC's talk. I don't know why… Read more »
Martin, I have my own personal library of a lot of the talks. I have been converting them to MP3 files.
If you can find a way to get me the May Trip talks of 2015 I'd be obliged. Also trying to find the July 4th Boise talks, and the CA Labor Day talks, pretty soon I will be trying to locate the 2015 November trip talks.
My prayer of how to deal with the arrogant in a righteous way was answered this week in my studies. The arrogant have a superiority complex but they don't see this; what they see is all others as inferiors in some way to them. In Job 12:3 and again in Job 13:2 Job states a fact "I am not inferior to you" When dealing with the arrogant you have to state this up front and repeat it time and again to counter their superiority complex. Martin Luther was falsely accused of being effeminate, this is the arrogant preacher making up… Read more »
Well said Anon Nov 22 at 7:27 PM! What some of the leaders in the Stanton group do is to attack the person who broke one of their unspoken rules, and to do damage to their reputation within the congregation. This is to make sure that no one will listen to what the supposed "offender" has to say.You see, somewhere you and Lynn pointed out a problem. In the Stanton group's eyes, that makes YOU a problem. Lynn didn't realize that one unspoken rule is that you MUST answer the door when members of the group come over, and you… Read more »
What were some of the rules you would get withdrawn from for that were not scriptural?
We must be the change we wish to see in the world. If Stanton does not help the helpless, than the helpless can turn to God, and with his assistance, help themselves, and others. Jesus did command us to love others as we wish to be loved, but he did not command us to enforce others love us as we wish to be loved. That is where Jesus and God have sovereignty, and it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God! I completely agree with you Lynn that brethren should have filled in the… Read more »
Amen 11/22 @ 0856 AM! Very true. Which of us, if we had power, would act differently if we were contradicted or someone of "inferior" spiritual standing disagreed with us? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Perhaps any of us who have experienced tyranny, are going through it so we understand what it feels like, and we can be taught to never treat another human being like this ourselves. If so, we ought to be profoundly grateful for the amazing lesson God is giving us. Who is to say if we had not been mistreated, and recognized the injustice,… Read more »
Completely agree 11/22 @0920. I objected to this too. I think it was the May 2006 meeting. The same one where they discussed how having a Big Mac in the building when you are doing construction work on it would lead us to accepting homosexual marriages!!?? I remember desperately trying to fight the feelings of this was a perfect illustration of the Pharisees, "Straining at gnats, and swallowing camels". But the church is firmly convinced, without any scriptural basis, that the Pharisees are those who are guilty of secret sexual sins. This is completely false, as Christ showed them to… Read more »
Yes, Lynn, Standard procedures is if the preacher in one congregation carries out a teaching or a punishment, agree with them at all costs. If you don't you are an Eli, and you are soft on sin. If you do, you are like Phinehas, and you are standing up for righteousness.
Thank you Anonymous 11/22 @ 727. Spot on! That is a great point about Job having gone through suffering and Solomon never had. Makes anything I went through more bearable. I had no idea anyone was called stupid by DS. I never saw it myself. When he reasoned to a conclusion however, he may not have said it, but if you opposed him you could easily feel intimidated an stupid.
Yes, 11/23 @ 0250 AM, ad hominem attacks. Any disagreements you have are completely glossed over, and encyclopedia of all you have ever been found to do wrong in the church is brought out for examination. The encyclopedia is not written down, and I am going to dovetail this with the answer to 11/23 @ 3:00 P.M's, query, "What were some of the rules you would get withdrawn from for that were not scriptural?". At my withdrawal, and at least two others I witnessed, members of the church were publicly requested to come forward with additional knowledge of alleged wrongs… Read more »
Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[2] And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[3] But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[4] And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[5] And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[6] Now we command you, brethren,… Read more »
Martin, you said – "I believe that true love is that which cares more about the hurts done to others than it cares about the hurts done to us." I completely agree with you. Eventually, I was treated like I was withdrawn from for not complying to their unscriptural demands. They were making them law and they said I was in sin for not complying. You can do what you want to me, but my point here is that I had to take a hard look at this congregation in its' practices. I was not the only one they did… Read more »
Also, this went way beyond the lack of help and support. It got to where almost every sermon and a lot of classes was geared towards me. Instead of empathy and support I got berated constantly by being said that I don't love my brethren.
I was there in 2001, Lynn, I met you at a few fellowships, if you know who I am, I appreciate your confidentiality. For the few months I was there I really did grow to like a lot of people. JO, and her son MO, and daughter Mer O, were amazing. R & R L were wonderful, very giving, and their daughter KL cried when I left. I felt bad because I didn't cry. I had no problem crying a few years later and today:) B & MO were a wonderful example of marital joy over the years. The sense… Read more »
If you are who I think you are, I stayed a night at your parents home on one of my business trips to California. Your father took me to the airport the next morning. I really do love S & C Ca. S knew what the leaders was doing and even mentioned it, but I believe was to afraid to step up. His wife was really empathetic to my infirmities as she had her own and also missed a lot of time. Their whole family is the definition of what Christianity is in that they have good hearts. I would… Read more »
That is awesome, Lynn. C Car was a very empathetic person, and the infirmities she dealt with did not stop her from aiding others. Wow, I'd heard a talk from CS that the children weren't getting baptized, in his words, "the minute they turn 18 they are out the door". He was sincerely perplexed by this. You are right, the children aren't dupes, they realize what is going on. But the problem is not just in Tacoma. Nationwide in the Stanton CA the children are leaving in droves. Kind of defeats the purpose when you have a ton of children,… Read more »
What's interesting is that some of the children approached me at different times and in different places. AO's son asked hos mom why they are treating me the way they are and she said because they believe I am not pushing myself as much as they think I should. He then told me that a lot of the children disagree with how they are treating people. Not that they disagree with the teachings, but how they are dealing with things. One of JO's sons ran across me and we had a good talk about things and it wasn't in a… Read more »
Lynn, what congregation were you in when in the Stanton Churches of Christ? It won't hurt to say now since you have fallen away.
I have not fallen away. To fall away is to turn your back on God for a life of sin. I have left a congregation that is holding the truth of God in unrighteousness.
Martin, I am sorry you had to go through that. A part of your problem is what I dealt with and a whole host of others did in that people can say anything they want to you and/or about you and you have no recourse. If you say something you are "defending yourself". If you say anything to anybody you could be withdrawn from. You are expected to live with what they say.
The breaking of bread one time is a ludicrous argument. In one account in Acts there was a worship which included three thousand brethren at one, how can you break enough bread at once for three thousand? The withdrawal for walking disorderly was a catch-all for anything and everything the teachers disapproved of. Not all withdrawals were handled the same, DS the man who started Prescott always called out to the evangelist in Spring Valley for approval first, WP, the preacher from Albuquerque seldom did. When DS wanted to leave the congregation in Prescott he was hindered by the sharing… Read more »
This is one thing that I noticed, also. Even though it is the charge of the leaders, and the church, to deal with sin in the congregation, I do see that they seem to fixate to much on the reproving end of it. I.e., they spend to much time on it. This is part of the help that I have been referring to. It is easier to keep castigating members for their wrong doings, or perceived wrong doings, that they don't take the time work with those who may need it. Wouldn't it be better to work with those with… Read more »
I have to say, Lynn, I have been reading this blog since it's start and have seen your berating of the teachers and preachers of the Church of Christ since the blogs beginning. To what avail? If this rebuke is to lead them to repentance they have had over two years to accomplish this. And we haven't heard of any changes because of your writings. If it is to vent your heart filled with bitterness then we know from scripture this will be to your destruction. Two years or so of writing the same offences you felt you have been… Read more »
You are right. I had my hopes up.
“It's the action, not the fruit of the action, that's important. You have to do the right thing. It may not be in your power, may not be in your time, that there'll be any fruit. But that doesn't mean you stop doing the right thing. You may never know what results come from your action. But if you do nothing, there will be no result.” ― Mahatma Gandhi In your patience, ye possess your souls, Christ Small strokes fell great oaks, Ben Franklin Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that… Read more »
@Concerned…im going to keep telling my story as well. Over and over if i have to. Its about the leaders that were and maybe still are doing these things being held accountable by his peers as well. Why would we want to keep these bad memories repressed? It only makes it worse. I had to endure almost 18 years of horrible abuses. My father was a "stantonite" if you will. We lived in Stanton. Spring Valley, Pensacola, Arizona, Eugene/Springfield. So i became very much in the spotlight. Which is why i believe i was abused so harsh over the years.… Read more »
@anonymous 6:46 pm….naw…im good. I have had enough thank you. Ill never step foot in another church as long as i live. I know scripture. I know the bible. Very well. And though im not agnostic nor atheist, i have my own opinions concerning theology. And i wont share those here. You know..millstones….necks…deep oceans.
I don't understand. If ya'll have so much problems with the church, why don't you all get together and start a really true church of Christ. Or don't you have the faith to go into all the world and preach the gosple. Sell what you have and move to someplace and suffer and sacrifice and rejoice and be happy
I see that you disbelieve that these things really happened. Usually people have a hard time understanding something that is wrong when they haven't been affected by it. Just because you may not believe it doesn't mean that what has been said on this blog. What is hard to accept is that we all gave our lives and hearts to the church because we believed this was the one true church. It just may be, but what made it difficult to stay in our congregations wasn't that we preferred sin, disagreed with teaching, or that we have a heart of… Read more »
Great suggestion Anon on 27at 6:46 PM! That is just what Merie Weiss did! But first she spent a lot of time trying to get through to her brethren, that they needed to make changes. Why in the world would she do that? She even suffered several withdrawals!I think it was because she loved her brethren. And she realized that they weren't 100% wrong.Some of us here only want the Stanton group to wake up and realize the error that is among them. That problems should be seen and addressed. And that more teaching should be going on, not attacks… Read more »
who are they? I'm not a Christian, just raised in the church. Are there really other true churches. Please give me name of churches and places. I'd like to try them out
and are u still in the church?
Good point Anon 11/27 @ 6:46. To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven. I honestly did not want to preach, and to lead others. Have had numerous opportunities to do so. I wanted to have a mentor, someone who I can look up to. At this time, I am beginning to think God alone is that guide, and if that is so, another church will be started soon. Would have preferred to avoid another branch, but I can think of no other alternative.
My sentiments exactly 11/28 @ 2:35 A.M. I don't like the idea of leaving those who loved me and raised me, and whom I can honestly say I love still. If God decrees it, then I will, but not before every effort at reconciliation has been exhausted.
I can't tell if anon 11/27 @ 6:46 is serious or mocking. Pontius Pilate mocked the Pharisee's when he said "shall I kill the king of the Jews?" The Pharisee's thought they were the rulers of the Jews and when the roman governor publicly pointed out that their competitor was the real leader they must have been steamed to say the least. Merie did not go out alone and start a church, she had a flock she had been shepherding that went with her. I would love to start my own church and this blog is the perfect place to… Read more »
Yes, 11/28 @ 1843. Nurture and admonition. Love and discipline. Rules without relationships leads to rebellion. Stanton is amazing at admonition, not so much on nurture. The funny thing is they jump to Christ's harsh rebuke of the Pharisees continually to justify their practices, even though this was a decided Minority of Christ's teachings. He had far more teachings on mercy, forgiveness, love, faith, belief, and fighting sin. Stanton forgets that sin is not a person, sin is an event. While willful and rebellious sin has to be dealt with, it is amazing to witness how many sinners have an… Read more »
Ideally there should be dynamic leaders, who are as apt to preach a sermon, as they are to start a conversation with the person at the gas station, or the grocery store checker. How can you effectively preach, when you haven't an idea who your neighbors are next door? How can you effectively lead God's people, when you ignore the literal neighbors that are right next door to you? When Jesus talked about the Good Samaritan, he talked about doing good for EVERYONE. Certainly christians have priority, but does anyone think we are to limit our benevolence, and magnanimity to… Read more »
Martin, you are correct in that people will shy away from those they are afraid of and.or no longer respect. The "preacher from the south/CS" and BS were always making the point that I wouldn't counsel with them. One time that I did counsel with CS, BS rebuked me the next Sunday class for the contents of the what the counseling was. Then they both have denied that that even happened. The help I was looking for from my brethren included everything that you have been saying. GP made a statement, in a talk, how that only Christians shoot their… Read more »
We agree on a lot,and that is good, Lynn. CS advised MO, a member of his church, who you know, whose mother is JO, not to get married. She eventually got married to a non-christian, and was soundly rebuked up and down the west coast, and probably from coast to coast for all I know. I thought counsel and advise were counsel and advice, not the 10 commandments! I don't see anywhere in the Bible where preachers and teachers can tell anyone when they can and can't get married, but the church steps in where God never told them to.… Read more »
Also, agreeing with Anon 12/2 @ 0625, there definitely is preferential giving of the church treasury. I have seen legitimate cases of the treasury being denied, in one instance, a woman asked for help with her rent and was denied, because her husband would not exert himself to work and support the family, and the church refused to take the responsibility of provider that God designated to be the Fathers. I have seen very few instances in the church where people had needs that weren't a result of their own laziness. It is wonderful in the church because unlike the… Read more »
Martin, let's go the opposite of the giving to the needy and look at the giving. We are told to give as our we are prospered. When my wife and I were laid off of work we had to go on TANIF. What we were bringing in was less than our bills, so my giving was not very much during this time. Well, CS took it upon himself to point our, from the pulpit, that when we miss the giving it should be made up the next time. This may be true, but what he was looking for was a… Read more »
whimper whimper whimper. Get on with it get over it. Be a man and make a difference to yourself and stop crying.
Thank you Anonymous Dec. 4 at 6:57 am. But it doesn't work. I believe Lynn has written the most and cried the most than anyone on here. He has received an abundance of sympathy and loving words to his plight of his being ill treated but he is beyond comfort and understanding. This blog is for people like Lynn who are dragging their complaints with them through out the rest of their lives. We need a solution, Lynn, not repeated complaints.
There is so much wha whaing on this site. I agree Anon Dec. 4 @ 6:57. Too much groaning and moaning. I thought the bible said to make straight paths for your feet and rejoice and be happy when persecuted. Everybody's got a complaint and you hope hope hope these guys are gonna change. shake off the dust on your boots and move on. Didn't someone say go and start a "real true church" where all there is is love love love. YOu guys move somewhere together and preach to the lost world and lick your wounds there. I don't… Read more »
to Anon Dec 4 at 6:57, 2: and Dec 5 at 5:22: What I don't understand is why you are on this site then? Why bother? If you truly believe this is a waste of time and not worthy of you and your time, go somewhere else! No one is forcing you to stay here and read all of the posts. You are doing it to yourselves. It certainly won't bother any of the rest of us if you don't read or post!It seems to me that you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing-"wha whaing" about… Read more »
What I see here is not only lots of complaints about the SCOC but even more so, a tremendous unsubstantiated FEAR of the SCOC. So many of you have sharp words for the SCOC, its members and leadership yet you all cower behind the name of Anonymous. Is this what Christ did. Did he cower in the face of opposition. Did he fear a wrath from other men? You are all so hypo-critical to your faith. You shame the very model you are expected to follow. I am not a Christian but I do know Cowardice is not a Christian… Read more »
KF, I see you have been diligently reading our posts? Hard to stay away isn't it?
🙂 what do FAKE stand for?
I hear tell that twerp is quite a girlie man.
And why use KF and not your whole name? Funny, while calling us out for not revealing our identities, you don't reveal yours! Hmmmm
he's posted before. He's a twisted ex spouse throwing his bigotry around.
KF I do post anonymously because we do have a "thug" here in Phoenix; who has beat his children until they ran away, he used to screamed at his wife and his coworkers, and at MSC distributing( a pennzoil dealer) his coworkers went to the owner of the company and told him that this "christian" man had developed an uncontrollable temper and the owner fired him to prevent workplace violence. I do fear this man, and I want no contact with him and no contact between him and my children (and he has gone after others children after abusing his… Read more »
wow you are a psychotic. sounds like your church is mafia, cosa nostra. don Corleone here we come.
KF, it was said before, and it will be said before. I am not afraid of saying my name, and the time will come for that. We are told to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. There are many people in history who were able to effectively communicate a message behind a pseudonym, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Clemens, Stan Lee, Lewis Carroll, George Orwell, Jonathan Swift, the Bronte sisters, Charles Dickens, O'Henry,and Voltaire are just a few. A drop of ink can make a million think, and the written word is very powerful. When we want to learn of… Read more »
KF, your divorce was hard, and being deprived of a marriage and children was difficult, and I do feel for you, but at the end of the day we are where we are because of our own choices and our own thoughts, and no man ever truly harms us as much as we ourselves. When injustice is done, there is nothing wrong with repeatedly addressing it publicly, but there is no need to ridicule, lampoon, or rail on those who we disagree with, no matter how right we may be, or how wrong they may be. Your description of the… Read more »
Perhaps whatever wrongs done to any and all of us were allowed by our Creator to teach us to truly love. It is not love to have a warm affection to those who treat us nice, no, love is when you can treat those who mistreat you kindly in return. Perhaps it was done to teach us endurance, perseverance, and patience. Since "fire is the test of gold as adversity is the test of strong men", as Seneca said, perhaps we should be grateful at having our strength tested? Since Francis Bacon said, "Adversity doth best discover virtue, and prosperity… Read more »
Martin, I do believe you are correct that God does put us in these types of situations, like you mentioned, that we may see our own hearts. These trials and tribulations are to prove us and make us stronger. I don't begrudge what has happened. I am just sad that it did happen as I love God, the church, and my brethren very much. All I ever wanted is to be one of the people of God in the harmony that he intended us to be in. I have thought about this the last few years I was with them… Read more »
Martin Luther, after reading your last post it struck me to ask you why haven't you gone back to the Stanton Churches of Christ? You admit you were in error and caused your own situation, and you seem to have an undying respect for those who flipped the switch on you. i.e. GP. He is the evangelist and everything goes through him for decisions. So. Back to my original question why haven't you gone back to their midst?
Ah, Concerned, there is the problem. The fundamental reason for my separation was saying, "Sin, when repented of, can be rapidly and completely healed by God". They do not believe this. Regardless of the faults, follies, or flaws I may have, the principle is true, I believe. If it is not, what use was Christ's sacrifice on the Cross? Did he die so we could be the slaves of sin and be paralyzed and disabled by it long after we have left it out of our lives? If so, then I am in error, but if God's power is mighty… Read more »
Martin, the Stanton Churches of Christ believe that God forgives 70 x 7. And they believe forgiveness means reaching the blood of Christ which heals completely. I don't understand the angle you are speaking from.
That's what I thought, Concerned. For whatever reason, when I spoke out publicly and said, "Sin, when repented of, can be rapidly and completely healed" they told me to be quiet, that this was not true. Behind closed doors they threatened me with withdrawal, and when that didn't stop me, and neither did their attempts to publicly air whatever private information they had on me, they resorted to withdrawal for four years, and eventually excommunication. Additionally, I objected to people being told to not come to church for nonsensical reasons (one individual was accused of corrupting other young people, and… Read more »
That said, I am not dogmatic about my beliefs. I welcomed TC and other preachers talks for I hoped that they would show me from scriptures how my reasoning was wrong. But the reasoning went like this. This is a proud individual, who never thinks he is wrong. He can't ever be corrected. He refuses to receive instruction. One preacher recommended just to admit I was wrong just because, even if I was right. If I am wrong, I am open to be corrected, with scripture. If I am right, ten angels swearing I am wrong won't make a difference.… Read more »
"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. ~Voltaire" Martin, this, I believe fits a lot of the problems associated with a lot of the church leaders. I have also studied the bible, like everybody else, and I, like everybody else, have grown in knowledge and wisdom. We are all learning the difference between right and wrong through the scriptures, so, when we see something that is wrong it is up to us, by way of the scriptures, to say something. I am sure, through the scriptures, that God would rather have the… Read more »
Yes, Lynn, the only sin they could withdraw from me for was disagreeing with them on the sentence I listed above. If I would have discussed my disagreement with others, I would have been withdrawn from for murmuring. It is absolutely every Christians duty to speak up when scripture contradicts a church practice. Careful self examination is necessary first, of course. You are right, there are too many who have never really stood up for anything in their life, and to oppose the church many left their family and friends for is definitely not easy. Speaking from personal experience it… Read more »
Lynn and Martin Luther: I understand what you are saying and agree. To me, it all adds up to the betrayal of trust.In the Church, we expect to find justice, mercy, right judgment and equity. The scriptures speak of these things, it's a part of righteousness. We expect that in the house of God, we will find them! My hope for the Stanton group is that they will realize that they are lacking in these things. and then change them.A huge part of the problem is the thing with their belief that the teachers are right no matter what. I… Read more »
Martin, did you leave out (by mistake) that confession of sin is also needed to be forgiven and not only repentence, or only rpentence is nec. to b forgiven.
I was thinking same thing anom dec 8 @8:06. Seems like something was left out of his conclusion. Also, I can remember when I was with the church that pride was a sin. And we have that all our life. can't get away from it. So we repent and confess and are forgiven and I "am completely healed"? Meaning never to sin again in the sin of pride?
I can relate Debby, the absolute insistence that the teacher is unquestionably right no matter what is not a sign of strength, it is actually weakness. Strong people don't have to be right all the time. I've made mistakes, and admitted them plenty, and it helped me grow. I try to put myself in their shoes, and see how I would feel if I were a preacher and someone in my congregation disagreed with me. It would depend on how it was done, but if they took it to me privately, and the scriptures supported them, I would have to… Read more »
If someone believed in me, and punished me, and it was public, I wouldn't mind at all. Stanton takes it to another level. They will ostracize, shame, and isolate sinners and make you "earn" your way back into the teachers good graces. Wow, just wow. I'm glad God didn't make us "earn" our way into the church. How is it they can do this to sinners, when God allowed them into his church without this nonsensical "earning". Then, when they have "earned" their righteousness, they become as proud as peacocks, and think it is beneath them to deal with lowly… Read more »
Yes I was a bit harsh in characterizing GP and PP but what I am saying is they are FRAUDS to your faith. They have no power except what others give them. Their power is in keeping their flock silent. My ex gave them that power. And yes my fault in our marriage, which was over 7 years at that point, was to allow her to exert that same power over me. Just like the preachers and teachers can not be questioned, she never had answers to my questions of her faith. I allowed another man to capture her mind… Read more »
dunno u man. never been in calif. just looked at your letter and posts and how KH had to "snip" your points, just seemed to be twisted even from the posts that others posted on your thinking. but u is who u is and u gotta live with your self. I know i'm gonna go to hell, so you'll be surprised to see me?
Wow Martin Luther! Well said! It bothered me too that ones with problems such as drug abuse, or alcohol, or even child abusers, had no real help. None of the teachers are equipped to help these folks, and they are forbidden to get the help they need from "those in the world". I remember one man we withdrew from for child abuse. He never received help for it, he was just suppose to pray and study to overcome it. He did make it back from withdrawal, but he did it again. This time the "help" he received was a rebuke… Read more »
"I remember a talk that TC gave one year, in which he had received a ticket and went to court to fight that ticket. He was amazed that the judge said that he had to support the law enforcement officer, even if he was wrong." Debbie, I remember this talk and even have compared it in responses that I gave to the church leaders. It seems that those who are not in office have little or no status when it comes to these matters. I have seen and heard older brethren ignoring and/or dismissing those who are not of equal… Read more »
"They will ostracize, shame, and isolate sinners and make you "earn" your way back into the teachers good graces,: Martin, this is exactly what I have been trying to convey. There was no sin that I was committing. What I was being ostracized for is that I wouldn't give into the unscriptural demands that the leaders were oppressing me with. I eventually noticed that the congregation was following suit because of the picture the leaders painted. I don't think they really told the congregation what the problem was and just did a blanket, "he's not following teaching". I refused to… Read more »
My purpose on here was not to go on about the mistreatment that was done to me, but to show that Christians can do these things to people without second thought, thinking they are right, and not considering who they are hurting. I was not looking for a "woe's me", but to shed light on what the leaders in my congregation were doing. I am sure that I am not the only one that this has happened to. I wanted to show that it steamed beyond my congregation as other leaders told this congregation's leaders what to do. When I… Read more »
I left my congregation in Phoenix for similar reasons; wickedness plain and simple. The members under the disord of WP (the preacher from Albuquerque) were at each others throats and backbiting each other. Child abuse was common and unaddressed in Phoenix. My children, at the time were 2, 5, and 6 and were being abused by a grandma while she babysat them (MD the woman whose children names all start with the letter J) My children were offended at how they were treated by this so called "christian" woman. (even at that young age) My son wanted to join the… Read more »
I am so sorry to hear that. When my two youngest were younger they were babysat by one one of the Christian women, who had no children of her own, and she did things to them that made them very afraid of her. They said she would spank them for no reason and her whole demeanor was unsettling to them. There are a lot of things that she did that was just not right. I am so sorry I ever out them through that. They are both 16 and 17 and still have a feelings towards her. Now, try to… Read more »
Amen, Anon 12/9 @ 0557 A.M. The church is quite severe on lust, but gluttony…not so much. They quote "Bodily exercise profiteth little" often, which is true, but is it not also true that "little exercise harmeth greatly?". Jus' sayin'. If our body is a temple, what is wrong with regular maintenance? Are christians to be so devoted to "spiritual" pursuits that our physical health suffers, or is that laziness? I will let you decide that, dear reader. Small, united groups of people who have refused to cooperate with tyranny have often worked a lot of good in the world,… Read more »
My children today are 20, 19, and 16. My son remembers the abuser very well but still wants to be a christian. My 19 yo daughter remembers the abusive babysitter also and how she would beat my two year old daughter with a wooden dowel because she wasn't getting up on the sofa fast enough, and is an avowed atheist today because of this woman's abuse (this woman who sat at Merie's feet) My sixteen yo daughter has no memory of these events. I did not know this was going on at the time and it is a good thing… Read more »
I have to say I wasn't spanked by any christians at all. I had plenty of trips to the woodshed due to my own actions, but got away with plenty. The situation you are describing seems to be different from any I am familiar with. It is wrong, definitely, and should not be minimized, however, it is important to make a distinction and say the entire church is guilty.
I agree Martin Luther. But I think it illustrates the need for checks and balances in each congregation, as well as for the teachers there.Part of the problem is that there is no real training for teachers. Generally, a person becomes a teacher when their teacher "falls". For some reason, it never occurs to the "higher ups" that teachers need training too, as well as check ups. But there also needs to be a system in place for ones to report teachers that are doing awful things, as well as teachers who are doing nothing about awful things. Its easy… Read more »
The child abuse i witnessed was in the phoenix COC
@KF…I dont post anonymously. Go through and read some of my posts throughout this blog. Ive spoken about some serious abuse. Im not whining. Im exposing the truth of this abuse that so many people have closed their eyes to and their backs on for so many years. As a matter of fact, im writing a book. I wont be anonymous in that either. I refuse. Im a 45 year old grown man. I no longer fear man. At all. I was in the SCOC from 73-74 until i was in the 11th grade. There is a Native American proverb… Read more »
Who here has ever seen, or heard, of another Christian being turned down, by the church, in any kind of help because one, or more, members thought that the needful Christian wasn't a good enough Christian? Not that they thought the needful Christian was wasteful, but that they were thought of not doing enough. Also, have heard because their spouse wasn't coming to church.
In Phoenix some were turned down and or discouraged from asking for help, in any way. We don't help those outside of the church so we don't help those in withdrawal was one judgement. Another was a single mom with two kids who was on welfare and had the church's baptismal in her garage (she was in section eight housing and not a homeowner) asked for help with her electric bill and was discouraged publicly by WP the preacher from Albuquerque, saying she was asking for to much because his electric bill wasn't that high ( he had SRP a… Read more »
"The church did not buy him any food" You have got to be kidding me!!! This is in direct violation of Mat 25:35. There is no prerequisite anywhere in the bible that allows us to pick and choose who to help in the church, but this is used all the time. Not to ring my own bell, but there have been times where I have went on my own and purchased the needy brethren groceries without judgment because they needed it. I look at my brethren as the people of God and it is he who I praise by how… Read more »
Yeah his name was John Vejar and with Dominick Sorino as ruling preacher no one was brave enough to offer him any help due to fear of that tyrant.
In the book written by Flavius Josephus about the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans he describes a cruelty. The Jews were starving so the Romans would build cooking fires at the base of the walls around Jerusalem and the Jews at first would climb down the walls and surrender to get some food. The Jews were so malnourished that when they ate their stomach's ruptured. When their stomachs ruptured out came gold coins that the Jews had eaten. When the Romans realized this they built more cooking fires and when the Jews came over the wall they… Read more »
I gave up asking for help. In Tacoma, the utility bills, in the winter, could get to over $400 for two months. I asked for help, one time, not even near the $400, but that is all we needed it for. I was questioned by people if I tried family, friends, welfare, needy aid, over and over. Then, more members came over asking the same questions that I must have answered 20 times. By then I was getting upset and they couldn't see why. I wound up not asking. It wasn't that they thought I didn't deserve it. It is… Read more »
I asked for help once and was denied. I realized that the Lord's treasury was under the sole control of the ruling preacher/teacher and was used as they saw fit; what the scriptures teach was ignored. I said I will not ask the church for help but I will ask God for help and he provided for my every need. God is great and he provides many other avenues to meet your needs other than going to the church for help and having to suffer the public humiliation for being poor.
Isn't that great? When my wife and I were laid off (we worked at the same place) we had to go on TANF and didn't have enough to pay all of our bills. Asked the church and was at one time told that if the church does help us then it means that God didn't find us worthy of it. After a lot of prayer God did come through for us and now we are better off than before all of this happened. We got all that we needed without their help and I praise God everyday for that.
In Eugene, people were ENCOURAGED to go on TANF. We got foodstamps and cash aid the whole time i was growing up. I thought it was normal. But then again, as a child, my sense of "normalcy" was WAY skewed to say the very least….
They justify that the foodstamps etc were meant for them so they can skirt around lieing in order to stay on them. They do it in their own sneaky way. It's only obvious what they do if something benefits them. I feel sorry for the single moms in the church. They thought they knew me until I proved them wrong. Always yapping their yaps. I can't wait until the food stamp laws change. I'm sure they are praying about any changes that can make it harder for them… dang these people are sick.
It used to be taught that God put Welfare there for the Christians. Really, I though that what the treasury was for.
I remember DS from Arizona bragging about how much he got in Food Stamps every month because of the size of his family. He wasn't even grateful for them, but seemed to have a sense of entitlement about it, and also had disdain and contempt for the government at the same time, even though this benefit which helped to feed his family came directly from the Federal government, via money collected from all the taxpayers in "the world" that he so arrogantly felt superior to.
Anon 12:11
Amazing how they can justify the food stamps.. I have watched so many in the church justify things that the worldly people think are so wrong.. just like them going to a doctor and coming back and preaching in the sermon making fun of the doctor LOL I just cannot grasp it..
When you tell lies about people they will hate you but I have realized that when you tell the truth about people they will hate you also. Some have been unscripturally withdrawn from and forced out of they church, but that is a lot of work. The church then started marking and avoiding members because that is an easier way to get rid of them. It has not worked, the outcasts are here on this blog some telling lies about the church; but many are telling the truth and both groups are hated by the arrogant rulers in the church.… Read more »
Oh, come on.
All behaviors are path's and all path's have a final destination. Laziness leads to starvation Proverbs 26:15 people can get so lazy that they will not feed themselves. Arrogance, the superiority complex, leads to murder as its final destination. The proud look at all others as inferiors in one way or another. They are either smarter than you, stronger than you, better looking than you, richer than you, or in religion they are more holy than you. The religious elite in Christ's day were called pharisee's and looked down on all other jews. Christ was different; in that he followed… Read more »
@Anonymous Dec 6 5:16am…Lol. If any of these so called leaders that ive have been talking about on this blog and their terrible abuse, corruption, sexual deviance, oppression, lies and manipulation…MY OWN FATHER INCLUDED, were to indeed, as you wrote, ("the leader will complain to his followers about you and one of the followers will act out against you, expect this when you openly criticize the leader"…) act out against me…it would mean 2 things… #1. I exposed the truth and they, and now EVERYONE knows that their deviance has been exposed and now they want me silenced…and, #2. I… Read more »
Jude, I got your back. I’m with you. These people need to be held accountable. They are wicked people. GP is an arrogant coward who has been challenged by me and chooses to not address the issues. Sounds like the clown is guilty by his silence. I try not to name call but he is what he is. Many are snakes in the cult as well. GP is the king snake. Number one goal for me is to see the cult go bye bye. Many great people within them who are being mislead by the four top snakes. GP, PP,… Read more »
I find that the first commandment God gave the Jews in Exodus 20:2-3 that they were to have no other god's before him because he was a jealous God and this principle applies to all false god's as well. If you god is alcohol it is a jealous god also and in time will demand everything from you: all you money, all your time, it will take your family away, and your dwelling. False gods in time turn you into a slave and then take your life also. It got down to -9 in Flagstaff AZ yesterday night and a… Read more »
Lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
Merry Christmas to all. And I hope God will bless all of you
I find that as I get older (I will be fifty this year) that I am having to endure more betrayals. My body is failing me I have to have hernia surgery and I have high blood pressure to deal with also. How does a righteous man deal with betrayals? Simple read any of the four gospels and see how Christ knew what was coming and accepted it. There are many different kinds of betrayals in this life and I am starting to understand the wisdom of the gospels in how to accept and deal with them. Praise be to… Read more »
does everyone have their Christmas shopping done. Does this church still teach it is evil. I think its a wonderful time. Course i'm no longer chained to it.
The reason why Christmas was taught against is because it is a carnal "holiday" that had God's name put on it. Even though the platform for celebrating it is Jesus' birth, it has nothing to do with that at all. Just as the Jews were making more feast days in God's name, for a reason to revel, God did not condone it and said it was vain. It is said, in the NT, that if we esteem one day above another that it is between us and God, but to do this in the name of God is not good.… Read more »
well, whatever. Meryy Christmas and Happy New year. to everyon. I hope yall have a better time with the church. I'm really happy with my life and enjoying it.
I find that life is an everyday battle. For the arrogant life is an everyday battle for superiority; the arrogant are constantly trying to find a way to exalt themselves over others. For the lustful life is an everyday battle to find pleasure; the lustful spend their lives chasing fleeting pleasures. For those who follow their conscience life is an everyday battle for equality; the conscience minded are constantly bring the arrogant back down to earth and constantly picking up the lustful from their self destruction and working to establish an equality among their fellow men.
wow! I'm enjoying my life and have never felt better since escaping this thing called the church.
The depth of understanding is an indicator of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. When I was first baptized I was told that it takes the Holy Spirit to understand the deeper things of God. I was ready to start learning the deeper things of God from my teacher but all I got was that baptism washes away your sins and masterbaters become homosexauls. After that all that was given was "Merie said" for understandings. When a teacher says "Merie said" they are implying that they don't know the bible, they don't understand the scriptures, but they still want to… Read more »
It sounds like your Stanton church of Christ teacher was right. You should have listened to them.
To Anon on Jan 3 at 9:21 PM-sounds more like a very superstitious group! Believing in signs and putting "deep" and evil meanings to everyday happenings. Nothing goes well every day in our lives. It's a fact that children act up, and plumbing gets plugged. Its ridiculous to attach the meaning that God is showing someone's sins when these things occur! Can we learn lessons from those kind of things? Sure! But to attach the revelation of evil to them is nothing more than evil surmising. Plain and simple. It reveals the evil mindset of a group that would do… Read more »
Hey..welcome back from Christmas vacation. Missed all the smacks on this group. yall must have been very bsy with the holidays.
Ecclesiastes 9:11 but time and chance happeneth to them all. I often think that it is easier to ascribe people to be in sin rather than take the time to work with and guide the congregation. I have seen people shunned because they are labeled with sin rather than take the time to work with them. It is easier to point the finger in judgement rather be there for your brethren. God said, "Come, let us reason together", but I have seen people ignored when they are labeled as wrong. Not one person has all of the knowledge, understanding, and… Read more »
If you are Never Forgiven you will Remain in their control. Forgive yourselves if you must and Leave the cult to die a withering death. It is a fraud to deceive others into giving them power and wealth.
They spread only pain and guilt to those who they deceive.They use the ignorant obedience of their followers to tighten the noose they place around each member.
But the members stand as fools watching as other members hang in front of them until their will is broken. Only a fool or victim would stay in that cult.
If I remember correctly, KF, you don't even believe in Christianity. You are not qualified to say a word about anyone here.
I do not need to be a Christian to say what damage the cult did to my family. If you know my story of 20+ years of struggle with my ex-wife over the hypocrisy of the cult doctrine, I'd say I am quite qualified to give comment here. As others have said here, there really isn't anyone stepping in here to deny the accusations and stories of abuse. Where are the leaders to speak out against their accusers? They hide along with the others in the shadows of their own guilt.As more light is shone on the activities of this… Read more »
Hey Kf. you seem to know GP. never met him. Is he as bad ass as you say? How do you know?
To Anon on Jan 6 at 7:03 PM: A person doesn't have to believe in Christianity in order to see first hand some of the dealings and beliefs of the Stanton Group. Spouses and the children of "believers" experience these things first hand, not second hand. They suffer or benefit from the beliefs and practices of the group. That is one of the purposes of this blog, is to get the group to realize the effects of their "counsels" and rules, as well as their practices. They don't seem to understand that equity and justice should be a large part… Read more »
GP a Bad Ass , Not at all. He's a Little man with a Big mouth. But his problem is he actually believes what his big mouth spouts, though few can truly understand his message. You'll have to search for Kevin's mp3 of GP's Labor day talk. It's gibberish and complaining that his flock is unruly. He doesn't talk to God but acts as though he has some access to higher knowledge. He repeats words over and over as if rehearsing a Shakespearean play. Find it and listen to it. You'll find him stumbling to remember my ex-wife"s name somewhere… Read more »
I would greatly appreciate it if anybody can get me a copy of that talk.
http://www.harpertribe.com/files/stanton/Labor%20Day%202013.mp3
Here you go Lynn 🙂
I can't listen it. It's too illogical to understand. If I didn't know him I'd say he is bizarre and delusional.
Well Anonymous Jan. 8 2:52 am I read your post about two weeks ago and it kept coming back to my mind. So here I am again re reading your post and giving it much thought.It's difficult to articulate my thoughts mixed with what I know about the Stanton Group and put them into words for this blog but I am going to try. What you said, for the most part, is true. Judging the Lord's flock must be done with equity and justice.(my words). Adultry, fornication, drunkenness, etc. are all demonstrative sins that need proof of their validity. But… Read more »
To Concerned. What you have written sounds paranoid and controlling and if you don't see that I am very sorry for you.
I have listened to most of that talk and got to the part where GP alluded to this site. I think it cowardly for him, or anybody else, to not take look into these things. He rather dismissed it at people turning their backs on God and the church. There are real problems here that need to be taken care of. What go does to for members and/or the church to continue in mistreating other members? The leaders say to just ride it out and stick around in hopes it gets better. Do you really think that God is thinking… Read more »
Lynn, one thing I have learned is that there are those who believe that authority has to be shown! Anyone who has a question, no matter why they have the question, must be shown this authority. Any means necessary will be used to show this authority.This shows how insecure they are. If a person really believes they are in charge because God put them there, they don't feel a need to "show" their followers that they are in charge. As a matter of fact, a leader should want ones to ask questions, learn judgment, gain experience. Isn't that what a… Read more »
Hey Jeff, lighten up man. I know someone said on this page for you to get on wiff your life. I mean diane and tom collier fought with these guys forever and had to finally realize they were lost. the colliers went on with their life and he is a paid preacher somewhere in iowa helping a little c of c. I can't figure out why you just don't do the same and help some real off church with all of your whatever. Get on with it people, this group will never change. And if there is a god let… Read more »
To Anonymous on Jan 31 at 10:15 AM-then why are you on this site?
This sight provides a very important outlet to compare notes from different congregations and how they treat their members. In Phoenix the teaching preacher, WP from Albuquerque, walked as a king over the members. Many Saturday's he would call around the membership looking for a man to come and give him free auto repair. WP made more than enough money to take his vehicles to an auto mechanic but instead he exploited the congregation for his own personal gain. WP at one point put out teaching not to go to the Mercedes mechanic for free auto repair, but WP himself… Read more »
Thank you Anon! My sentiments exactly! I was only worth something so long as I did a lot of the work for the congregation. When I left, I realized that the teachers rarely did anything they didn't have to, and wondered who they got to do all of the work I used to do! I'm sure they found some poor sap though, the congregations are filled with folks like me.
u know what I think….we're all chicken littles to not give our names and to keep hiding in the shadows is stupid. my initials are JH and I was around the bama scoc's. Come on out of the closet u scairdy kats!!
I have used my name. I want people to know who I am. I am vocal, not because I want sympathy for what was done to me, but that it can be understood the ambiance that airs the congregation. I don't read of such things in the bible. I fight so hard because I know that the teachings of the COC are correct, but they are handling the word of God in unrighteousness. I do believe that they push people out that won't comply with their unscriptural judgements. Since they can't withdraw from you for sin, they push you out… Read more »
One of the ways God teaches man is his word is through symbolism. In Genesis 40 Joseph is called to interpret dreams of two men. The first had a dream with three branches and the second had a dream with three baskets; both were symbols of three days. In three of the four gospels Christ teaches the people by parable, using symbols such as the sower and seeds for God and his word, old wine and new bottles for the old law and the new law, and many more. The people of Christ's day not understanding symbolism could not interpret… Read more »
To Concerned: I understand the point you are making in response to my earlier post! But the kind of situation you are referring to is one that is one that doesn't happen very often. I was referring to situations that happen every day in almost every congregation.If equity and justice and carefulness is practiced every day by the teachers and leaders, then when a situation happens like the one you described ones can trust the teachers and leaders acted appropriately! But when ones see others treated unfairly and unjustly by those teachers and leaders, then it's difficult to trust them… Read more »
I do see where you are coming from Anonymous 2:52 AM. In fact your reasoning is sound and applicable. The Stanton Churches, to me, are a very good example of what happens without God's plan of elders and deacons for each congregation. Elders are 'chosen' from and by the congregations/evangelists to rule by example. They are trusted by the Christians, they make judgments for the congregations that chose them because they know that particular flock and they meet the qualifications making them spiritual and seasoned men of the Lord.But the Stanton Churches have always been governed by quite the opposite.… Read more »
One behavior that I saw that deeply disturbed me was how teachers/preachers used any method to get rid of people in their congregations they did not want. DS, the man who started Prescott, used anonymous threatening phone calls and anonymous threatening letters with those he did not like. Members would get phone calls late at night with no one speaking, but someone was there on the phone. One woman got a call from a male caller saying "(the woman's name) I am watching you." I got an anonymous letter referring to my facial expression on my wedding video taken by… Read more »
No, anonymous, Feb. 2 that's not the reason I don't use my name. It's because of 'some' of the people on this blog.
Deeply disturbing.
Deeply disturbing?? What, to hear the truth told about actual abuses by the cult leaders. Or do you mean Deeply Disturbed leaders.People who intrude and peer into others personal lives, especially their sex lives have yes deeply disturbed minds. They do abuse people by their actions to castigate if not also castrate the males under their influence. But look how many are still afraid to speak openly. Remaining anonymous just gives those cowardly perverts assurance that their power over you is working. They are indeed disturbed minds working at creating more disturbed minds. Don't fall prey to the fear they… Read more »
The coercive behavior by church leadership is deeply disturbing, either you submit to their authority without question or the church leaders will harass you, insult you, belittle you, and publicly humiliate you until you either submit or leave. I have always found their judgement's harsh, even cruel at times. I do not post under my own name for good reason: with just a few words people jump up to please the evangelist in S.V. I don't know how I am going to pay these legal expenses caused members to jump up with open checkbooks. The evangelist is not careful with… Read more »
I here you talking anon feb 3 @7:09pm. You said your legal expenses need to be paid. How can I help and what are they.
The example I was quoting was from the evangelist in S.V. when he had lost a custody battle and was compelled to pay the winning side legal expenses and he said at a meeting after his talk about the matter "I don't know how I am going to pay the legal bills" and that was all it took for a babe to jump up and offer him her inheritance. The amount of influence he has over his religious organization is incredible and for KF I wanted to point this out that although he is the leader when you go up… Read more »
A small correction: GP court fees was not paid by a babe in Christ but rather a Christian of some age in the Church. She knows GP and PP very well.
This is an example of the type of help I was trying to convey. Those who are of good status will always have people jumping up to help, but if you are not favored you get left out. This isn't due to sin you may be living in, but because you aren't living the exact way people think you should and/or won't follow teaching that you know is not correct. What we don't see is a prerequisite anywhere for helping out brethren. Who are we to judge people like that? Another things I saw was that if certain brethren were… Read more »
NOT a small correction. What we were told in Phoenix was that someone had died and left custody of their children to the evangelist and his wife and that the worldly grandparents had objected and fought for custody and won and that after complaining about his legal bills a babe named something like Erin Delacruz had just received an inheritance from her grandmother and had given it to the evangelist and then the babe went out to Alaska. The impression I got that the evangelist was using his position of authority to take financial advantage of a babe, and this… Read more »
apologize? I'm not a member anymore but still can see that asking forgivenss is a humbling gesture. especially for all the phony info (I think they called this murmuring or sowing discord or false accusations or evil surmising). Shame on me and shame on you'all
I can see what this site started as an air your grudge match and now??
What I started to suspect in Phoenix was that it was a pay to belong church. If you did not have money that was okay, you could offer car repair, home repair, or other service items, something of value to the teacher/preacher. The evangelist told me one time how that a teacher upon greeting him handed him a personal check, and the evangelist looked at it and handed it back to him saying "it is not needed." The importance of offering gifts/bribes to gain favor with the evangelist was not lost on me, but I did not have much money… Read more »
Well anonymous 7:46 pm I hate to burst your hate bubble but for the sake of keeping this history correct I must speak. The Christians name was not what you have posted and for the sake of the Christian I will not print her name. I had known her for many years and she certainly was not a babe.
Please burst my bubble anytime by telling me the truth. I did not print the exact name, but something close. This clarifies several things for me: one I was lied to by mother Marylin, (which in light of her heresy she taught at fellowship that all children outside the COC go to hell when they die, even little bitty babies causes me to reject most everything she said as false), two that the evangelist is not the scoundrel that I came to believe he was, and three that this blog is great for getting the whole story. Thank you for… Read more »
To: AnonymousFebruary 6, 2016 at 5:10 AM Just to put out there that my part in this is not to express grudges, murmur, o just complain. There needs to a way to convey what has happened to many of the brethren and facts are needed as to not just state that you were treated unfairly. How were you treated unfairly and what was/is it that is being done that others may know that these practices are unscriptural, cause ill feeling, and in many cases cause people to leave. I am sure that the leaders don't go into detail as to… Read more »
We seem to be running out of posts that have any value.
Please feel free to add some value.
What is the concision? Philippians 3:2. To let you know ahead of time, I did studied this out and am persuaded it is not the "Jews" as so many seem to say. So if you choose to answer please offer a clear and logical explanation. I am cross checking my understanding with what you may have found on this.
I won't be able to check on this for a while, but I will check. Concision actually means to mutilate. The root of the word means to edit down. See Matthew 23 and Luke 11; The Jewish leadership was very careful to follow the law to the letter, But they failed to implement Mercy, judgement, and trust. Thus by doing so their judgments where burdensome. Do you really believe the Jews could only be capable of this? Of course not. We all can be capable of this. Notice that the Jews Leadership would seek for false witnesses, but with Christ… Read more »
I was taught that Satan was in the church because in Revelations 2:13 say that is where his seat is. DS, the man who started Prescott had all of us babes looking around and wondering which one of us was Satan. I was so dumb that i asked a member of the Spring Valley congregation who Satan was in their congregation and was told very quickly that the scripture doesn't mean that what the scripture implies is that a wicked ruler might be over that particular city or maybe it was a natural threat like a volcano and not that… Read more »
Oh please don't send me to Hell for eating a piece of chocolate (cherry brandy) See's candy
To Anon Feb 6 at 9:31: Really? I guess it shouldn't surprise me that they would go that far. The premise that drinking alcohol is a sin is where they are wrong. It's drunkenness that's the sin.
They already go too far by making it a sin to buy sparkling grape juice, and now they are making food with a tiny amount of alcohol a sin. What about cough syrup? That will be next!
No man, u not hell bound for candy, but for yo sins man. u neva been cleaned and u sound pretty dirty. not a part of this group but they do say right things on being clean.
If you will notice, the scriptures don't talk about not drinking, the teach against drunkeness. 1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. Studies have shown that a little win does have healthy properties. I am not advocating that everybody is free to drink as we know that can we hold a fire in our bosom and not be burned? I think that no eating of those foods is not the same as being a drunkard, yet everybody needs to follow their own consciences in these matters tempered… Read more »
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Yikes!!Now its really getten spooky
IN proverbs 1:3 it gives one of the reasons for writing the proverbs: to teach a young man equity. Equity is making thing equal in judgement. One of the unfair practices in the SCOC is men who do not pay child support or alimony, yet can preach. How can you feed the people of God spiritually and at the same time not feed your wife and children carnal food? Does not the carnal come first then the spiritual?. In Phoenix we had repeated situations where a man came from another location due to unscriptural marriage or other reason for separating… Read more »
IN proverbs 11:29 Solomon writes "he that troubles his own house shall inherit the wind" and we see an example of this with Judas in the new testament; Judas sold out the leader of Christianity and though he got thirty pieces of silver, he ended up with nothing (which is the wind) Marriage is a house also and those who commit adultery on their spouses trouble their own house and though they think that they will have a lover and a spouse they are just deceived as Judas was, and end up with nothing in the long run. Their spouse,… Read more »
Well said. Anyone who cheats on their spouse is pathetic.
Where did everyone go to church today and what did you learn?
What I learned was from the book of Matthew: that from the moment Christ was born in this world he had physical enemies (Herod tried to kill him as a baby) and spiritual enemies who opposed anything and everything he taught; life as a christian is a constant struggle against evil, do not expect an easy life here on earth.
…and you learned this at which worship station?
Worship station? I must ask you Anonymous 3:50 am where DO YOU GO TO CHURCH?
to a small community church
It takes years to see how truly evil sin is. DS, the man who started Prescott was the teaching preacher in Phoenix from 1990 to 1993. His teaching style was to have a short temper, and anger that quickly turned into verbal rage. DS held unreasonable grudges, sometimes for years. DS was cold, harsh, and verbally abusive toward the members of the congregation. After he left in 1993 to start the Prescott COC many of the brethren in Phoenix adopted his personality of short temper, and anger that quickly became rage only they members did not stop at verbal abuse… Read more »
You don't know who posted on here so you should not point the finger. And if the child of the abusive man did post here he deserves compassion not someone pointing out their flaws. Poor kid.
@ Feb 17. 6:05am….you have just described MY OWN FATHER…"leading Eugene". Im kind of at a loss for words right now. That is exactly how he was. Wow. Smh
Okay now what,I have been associated with this Church for a number of years and have always had a difficult time with believing some of its teachings,such as that only 1.43×10 to the minus eighth power percent of folks were going to heaven,(assuming one thousand righteous COC)particularly in light of Rev.7.9 et al.I always had a problem with that one in particular.I am thinking also,as I believe has been noted here,perhaps God never named his Church per se,I mean there are many names given,seemingly without preference to one or the other right?This site has caused me to bring to the… Read more »
Really like this post, Anonymous 908. That was always my question as I studied the scriptures. The vast numbers spoken of in Rev. from all nations, different languages before God's throne didn't compute with what is held as a main teaching in the Stanton churches of Christ, that they were the only ones going to heaven. As I studied and studied and studied I did have to admit God's words did lay out definite commandments I saw that drew people out from the world into one believing assembly that God called the Church. That made it necessary, I observed, to… Read more »
To Anonymous at 9:08 and Concerned, are you still part of the church and have you ever gone anywhere else for worship?
I found in the church I attended that the word was taught but something was left out. Most of the preaching/teaching was doom and gloom. Every time there was a big storm, earthquake, etc, it was taught that God was angry with us Christians for some reason and we need to figure out why. Carnal men see God only in carnal terms; many of the books in the Old testament praise god for his carnal powers such as having power over the sea's, the great mountains, or the stars. The people in the old testament were limited in their view… Read more »
I read in Job that God despises no man (Job 36:5) and I wish I could say that, God is greater than me. I despise the infidel, the unbeliever. Muslims are infidels; though the profess to know God they do not keep any of his commandments and when a Muslim starts to speak about God I get up and leave knowing that they are evil and can have nothing good to say. Jews are infidels also, not believing in the Christ. In the epistle of 2 John 1 the writer condemns all unbelieving Jews as antichrists, and I do not… Read more »
Sad you have so much despise /hate in your heart if people are different than you or believe differently. Who says your belief is the right one? Oh yes one true church. I am not defending these different beliefs but I certainly do not have room in my heart to despise people. You even say you despise the non believer. Do you not try to show genuine love and friendship so they will want what you have? That is how I was led to the Lord. By a fellow co worker and I wanted what she had…joy in her heart… Read more »
My lesson for this Lord's day is "pearl of great price." What is most important to you in this life, and what is not important to you in this life? Is the life of a christian fulfilling you or do you still thirst for something else? For me God is no only the most important thing in my life but also the most interesting also. I am constantly amazed as I learn more things about God in my daily studies of the scriptures. I drive for a living and the cd player has become my bible study, I got the… Read more »
I finished listening to the May Week discussion of Romans. They brought up this blog and Kevin. I just don't see why they won't give any creed to the fact that a lot of problems have been brought up here that are not scriptural nor righteous. They would rather avoid and call it unrighteous than take it to heart. God told the Israelites, "Come, let us reason together", but they would rather just put this aside. My question would be if God sees this rift and that it has been brought to light, what would he do seeing that it… Read more »
Years ago, through much study, I had learned that there are two accounts of the Abomination of Desolation. One happened during the silent years between the old and new testament and the other happened during the sacking of Jerusalem. I tried to express this in the church and was told that if that was true that one of the older Christians would have figures it out. Well, maybe nobody had studied it out. Instead of asking me to elaborate, I was treated as though I was teaching falsehood.
1st account – Daniel 11:31
2nd account – Mark 13:14