Dear Stanton leadership,
Merie was a big fan of open letters to the leadership of the churches she disagreed with, so I have to assume that this is an acceptable way to communicate with you. Since I have the benefit of the Internet, I’ll refrain from mailing copies to members’ homes, as she did. (Wasn’t that murmuring, by your definition?)
I have tried other ways to start a friendly dialogue, including an email in 2004, numerous offers to my mom to have anyone talk to me about the Bible, attempts to engage my sister in simple conversation about the Bible, even offering to have coffee with any church leaders who happen to be visiting here in the Boise area. The silence has been deafening. But silence is not a strategy.
Perhaps you mistakenly thought that if you ignored questions long enough, you wouldn’t have to answer them; that the questions would just disappear quietly into the night, like the hundreds of members who have left your fold over the years. That’s clearly not working. Those ex-members from the past are resurfacing, and readership is growing here by leaps and bounds.
I don’t credit the growing readership to anything great or clever that I’ve done. My mission was, and is, to just publish historical and Biblical truth about Stanton in a Christ-centered fashion. I have only a heart of love and sincere scriptural inquiry, that is all. I didn’t seek out an audience for this blog; the audience sought it out, and spread the word themselves about the blog.
Maybe you distrust my intentions. I want to assure you that I have no desire to “play gotcha” as I’ve been accused of in a 2013 Labor Day talk. Yes, I do use some good natured satire and sarcasm on this blog for the purpose of making a point now and then, as others did in Biblical times. Please don’t take it personally. I have always tried to make it abundantly clear that I hold no ill will toward Stanton membership or leadership, and am completely open to having friendly conversations about anything.
Those aren’t empty words. I truly do try to practice what I preach about The Greatest Commands to love God and love people. I figure that if God loved you and enough to die for us, then I ought to love you as well, and seek your best interest. That’s good enough for me.
If you are not sure how this blog seeks your best interest, let me just say this: call me, and let’s have a real conversation about it. You can call, text or email anytime to challenge my Biblical understandings, or even explain something that maybe I have wrong. I’m open to that. Convince me.
I’ll definitely listen to what you have to say. Try me, and get to know me better so you can determine for yourself whether I’m to be trusted. I can assure you, you have nothing to fear; I’m just a guy with a blog.
I want you to know that any conversation I have with anyone—member, teacher, preacher, or evangelist—for any purpose, will be kept in complete confidence. Unless you specifically give permission for me to write about our conversation, it won’t be discussed here on the blog at all. You won’t wake up the next day to find a conversation you thought was in confidence poured out on the Internet for “gotcha” purposes. That’s just not how I roll. Everyone on this blog, from anonymous commenters to SCOC leadership, needs to be able to trust that when I say confidential, I truly mean confidential.
I know there are teachers still in the group who read the blog, and either quietly question the church’s stance along with me, or want to defend it and explain it. It is in our nature to think, to question, to wonder, to examine, and sometimes to debate and defend. That’s OK. Understandings can be formed, and relationships built, when there is brotherly communication.
If you’ve been the least bit troubled by the lack of Biblical support for the church’s teachings (doctrines, judgments, or whatever you want to call them), we should talk. Even if you are rock solid in your belief that Stanton is the One True Church, we should talk. What’s to fear in having a conversation with me or anyone else who might challenge your view? Truth, after all, shouldn’t be afraid of a lie.
I’m not writing this open letter to taunt, or to grandstand, or to have a one-sided monologue with you. It really is the only way I know to communicate directly with you, and I really do want to listen to your point of view. If you are fearful of talking me, or want others to be fearful of talking to me, why is that? I sincerely want to know. I’ve tried to reach out before, but my efforts were met with silence.
If you think I’ve erred, and need to be corrected, why don’t you do the loving thing, and share with me where I’ve erred? Let’s talk sincerely, long into the night if we need to, about the scriptures we both love and respect. I don’t want to be in error, and I go to great lengths to keep my words and actions in line with scripture. So if you truly love my soul, help me understand the way of the Lord more perfectly. I truly love your soul, so come, let us reason together.
If you don’t want to talk, that’s fine. I understand that you have no obligation to speak to a lowly guy like me. But in this Internet age, the consequences of trying to control your own narrative about church history, doctrines, and practices, may not work out in your favor. Paul would have loved the Gutenberg press, let alone the Internet. Why not embrace the transparency the Internet provides as a tool of communication?
But if your response continues to be silence—to ignore honest questions—you can’t blame anyone but yourselves for losing more members, much less failing to evangelize a lost world. Fifty years in existence and no elders? And there is not even one of your congregations in every state? OK, I’m sorry—maybe that will be interpreted as taunting. But it doesn’t appear that you are fighting for truth, but hiding from it. And if you’re not fighting for truth, as I recall, that only leaves “dying” or “dead.” Which is it?
In Christian Love,
Kevin Harper
208-249-88993
P.s. – You might rightfully ask what I hope might come out of a conversation. The answer is that I don’t know. That’s why we need a conversation. Maybe it’s the right time to have one. You can trust my motives, even if you’re skeptical of them.
Best of luck, but I doubt you'll get a response.
David, is this the same David S. that left a comment awhile back with a confession, apparently trying to come back from withdrawal? I'm confused.
Good to have you back, brother, and please understand that getting back into Stanton's good graces does not secure anyone a place in heaven. It's only through a real relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ—letting go of our own attempts to earn salvation, and understanding that salvation is a gift, not a wage earned for righteous behavior.
I love you David Stankowski!
David, if I understand the names correctly, your father passed away recently, right? I'm sorry for your loss. We corresponded by email a few times.
Kevin: I can't reveal my name but I will tell you from long experience that GP's Achilles Heel is to tell everyone information about him. He likes playing good cop bad cop he being the good cop. And he likes operating in that manner using other teachers and the bad cop.
Tell us more about his AH
ANON AT 1:06 WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
I was wondering the same thing. I can't understand your comment anon 1:06, please clarify.
Great letter, Kevin. I pray someone steps up and has a conversation with you. I know we have tried with Mom and she refuses to talk about anything we question. It saddens my heart that they are only defending their beliefs that for all these years has changed constantly. How would Merie take the changes that have come about? Love you and pray for whatever God's will is on this.
Thank you. I don't know what will come of this. The blog's into its fourth year of existence. Time flies, and the destruction caused to families is not getting any better, so I felt that this was the right time to do this.
I am one of those who has had to weigh the losses vs staying there. I've lost kids to the sect. However, the thing that keeps me going is the knowledge that this place isnt THE TRUTH they claim to be just because they use scripture to maximize wrong in others and minimize wrong in their own teachings, examples, lives, and thoughts. I have had to be honest with myself in how I have treated and thought about others and how I used it to elevate myself and fool myself into thinking I was more spiritual than others and more… Read more »
Yes, that one failed truth claim kind of tells the whole story, doesn't it?
If it wasn't for all these petty man made rules, their gossiping, bad mouthing and making fun of people, they could have alot more members who would love to be a part of this church. This power trip they are on will not go away (it's been hammered into their crazy minds). It is just sick and I'm so glad I grabbed all of my family away (I accomplished that because of this blog) except for one (who's not blood family)
Glad you got your family out. I hope others are able to do the same.
Anon 9:21that is enough of a list to determine this is one dysfunctional cult! Praying for God to show the way out….
Human thought and behavior are very predictable and the scriptures tell us this. In Proverbs 30:20 tell us of the way of an adulterous woman she eateth and wipeth her mouth and sayeth I have done no evil; the adulterous woman does not stop her wicked behavior she simply covers it up. Consider Herod and Herodias in Mathew 14:4 When John the Baptist told Herod it was not lawful for him to have his brother wife; the Jews under the law of Moses were allowed to give a writing of divorcement, so the implied meaning is the Herod was living… Read more »
Anon 11:19, I need to repeat a maxim that has served me well over the years: let God and God alone judge the hearts of men. Jesus was God and could speak very condemningly of the Pharisees because he knew their hearts. We can speak confidently about actions, perhaps, and as I've tried to do in this blog, use their own words to show how they do not follow the Bible as they claim. That is very demonstrable. But we still have to be very careful not to judge the heart. God alone knows their hearts, whether they are "filled… Read more »
Kevin could you help me find the above mentioned maxim in the bible? Is it in the old testament or the new testament?
Do you have some knowledge of a person's heart besides what they tell you or portray through actions? 1 Kings 8:39 – …for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men, 1 Samuel 16:7 – But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Corinthians 4:1-21 – This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of… Read more »
Should not 1 Peter 3:15 apply for those in the scoc. As it reads but sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear. Simply prove it scoc. I heard GP had debated someone before if that's true why silence now? The apostles spoke the word with boldness. At the doors members contend for what they believe and have no problem telling people they are wrong. When the ones spoken to at the door do… Read more »
It amazes me how two of the four so called leaders in the entire Merie Weiss culthood have no children that are members. Why do you think this is? And these two GP and PP counsel other married couples how to raise children. Yikes. And GP will be supported for life! Members of the scoc you are wasting your hard earned money on this man. Your money also is going to his hypocrite wife. They will not even answer the call to defend what you have been wrongly taught. Why is that? Ask him. What would Jesus do? Ha what… Read more »
I had these issues when I was a member. In my congregation: One preacher had only little kids. Another had a kid who seemed to despise him. Another had some who were members and some who avoided it like the plague (older ones had been around the harsh times; parents left for many years so younger ones came to know the church as young adults only). Another had over 10 kids and only 1 "faithful" one, with bad reports in several. And finally another had 2 adult kids with families who have no inclination to join. These were our "counsel".… Read more »
Scoc watch Daniel Fusco's two minute video on how to disagree. You do not have to withdraw from people that see the scriptures differently than you. Especially when people such as I want no part of ever being apart of your cult. Learn scoc to be disagreed with. Learn to be corrected. Learn about love. Real simple.
Here is a link to Daniel Fusco's video. Excellent stuff, thanks for sharing, Craig: How to disagree I personally have been deeply moved on this subject by a few simple verses from Paul's letter to Rome. I started off my spiritual journey as a believer in a very legalistic place. I thought I knew most or all of the answers, and my job was to learn debate techniques well enough to expound them. Boy was I wrong. I stumbled across the writings of a reformed legalist named Carl Ketcherside who re-introduced me to scriptures I'd read a million times and… Read more »
I'm definitely interested.
I am also interested. Thanks Kevin.
Very good
COC child and Ex member. What does the scripture mean that says" Sing praises unto the Lord with SONGS and hymns and SPIRITUAL SONGS? We get the hymns part..but what of I want to sing a gospel song….Whats wrong with that? Is that not a spiritual song? No mention of musical instruments in the New Testament huh?.. well isnt revelation a part of the New Testament…it mention the angels in heaven playing upon harps, trumpets and anouncing Holy is the Lamb..so that is not worship? I was told you cant make a melody in your heart with musical instruments..im confused.… Read more »
Yes, I agree. No arguing but some answers to these questions makes for good discussion and learning and growing. And while you are at it what about holidays?
Those are good questions. I never understood why fasting isn't adhered to either. Maybe because they don't actually believe it would help anything? Also they never teach on gluttony. That's supposed to be a clear sin. Maybe the fellowships wouldn't be so required then? (you could claim you're fasting and not attend.) Imagine the gluttony confessions Sunday night! " I'd like TO Stand and ask forgiveness (but I can't stand up) for eating a whole bag of chips while waiting on food to be cooked at 2 in the afternoon, for eating 2 huge pasta platters, and for then stuffing… Read more »
Hahahahahahahaha . I don't even like to eat but the amount of food that I have seen pigged down at fellowships almost disgusted me.. when I was in the church I had many members thinking the same way I did.. I would have just been happy with my energy drink and banana at fellowships LOL.. sorry I had to laugh at that.. I actually made a point to watch some of the church members eat and just had to roll my eyes.. I used to smoke but boy oh boy smoking in their eyes was worse than weighing in at… Read more »
Anon 11:25 and 6:32 agree good questions. Gluttony I only heard taught on once a few years ago by the teacher who was withdrawn from the past months BS from Tacoma. Otherwise only heard the preacher from Portland MM murmur to me quietly in my ear to watch a few certain women at times load there plates up with food at fellowships. Fasting and another was foot washing which would be explained as a custom as well as they wore sandals and there feet would get dirty.
I never discussed OTHER people in conversation. It was just convos about the over eating I was discussing. I kept names to myself when I watched them. In fact at a fellowship at one of the teacher's homes she even brought up how much food is eaten at fellowships hinting the sin of gluttony. Maybe they can't put a scale on what's too much food and can't put a weight on everybody so they leave it alone. And leave it to MM to point out people. He reminds me of my little old lady neighbor that can't go a day… Read more »
Anon 8:40 I agree and shame on me for listening to MM complaints. Should’ve corrected him on the spot. Pointing this out to others especially coming from a preacher, all that does is plant a seed in someone’s mind too look for it. This issue was never discussed in Portland in my time there. Maybe privately it was, never publicly. The issue never stopped though so I doubt it was discussed privately.
Glad you asked..what about holidays…i remember as a child my mom telling me we dont know when Jesus Birthday was, and that we should celebrate his Birthday everyday,and that its impossible to give him a gift, because since its his celebration why should we give the gifts to anyone else. My response earned me a sore bottom. I said..well remember the scriture that says..when where you hungry and I gave you no drink, naked and I didnt clothe you..he answered when you didnt do it for the ones that believed in me.." im paraphrasing" so when i give my gift… Read more »
I pray for your recovery from the damage this cult has done to you and remember you can be healed by our gracious loving God. I pray you have found a church far away from C of C and and make good friends.
I imagine that all the children growing up in this church?when walking away from it (unfortunately not all do) they will hopefully get a clear understanding what these holidays are all about and not the most depressing sinful way they have been taught in the cult. I am free as a Christian to celebrate them anyway I want to and some I choose not to such as Halloween my least favorite. But I have a choice! No one seems to have choices while attending here. They are made for you so no wonder they don’t want the children very educated… Read more »
What is the contact information necessary to receive the May Meeting Discussions?
I have the discussions and talks. I’ll send them your way if you’d like.
GP, 200 plus questions for you that I have. Going on two years this May. A real leader would answer them.
GP, you’re making it crystal clear that you fear to answer my questions. I’ll put you to shame. Bring your other paid preacher to Portland and meet me face to face. A simple forum in front of all the Portland congregation and their children. You say you have the truth come and prove it to this nonmember and a few others. You continue to prove what you are not by ignoring my questions.
Really nice blog! posts are relevant and quality! Thank you
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