In the Stanton sect, the term “Off Church” has only one meaning: Churches of Christ that do not follow Merie’s teachings. Who declared the Churches of Christ to be “Off Churches”? Merie, and only Merie Weiss. No one else has had the authority to declare a church “off.”
Years ago, an early follower of Merie, disappointed by Stanton’s drift away from some of Merie’s core teachings, spoke out against current leaders (just as Merie did against the leadership in her day). She was rebuked, and when she stood her ground (as Merie did), she was “marked and avoided” (an invention of current leaders supposedly harsher than “withdrawal”). Guess what? This disciple of Merie then started her own sect, declaring Stanton to be the Off Church, and her new sect to be the new One True Church. Like “mother,” like “daughter.”
So I ask you, who is the real Off Church? Is it the original Churches of Christ Merie attended and was baptized into? They had their faults, as we all do. Or was it Stanton, or maybe the newer breakaway sect? Who’s the Off Church? How about both of these sects? They are both “off” by intentionally setting out to cause division, then actually accomplishing it by dividing from their previous fellowship. So I say “a pox on both their houses.” Both were wrong. Both divided brothers and sisters from one another.
For new readers of this blog, I’ve explained and documented clearly the history of Merie’s withdrawal by the conservative Churches of Christ back in 1958. She may have been withdrawn from up to three times, and did not come back from at least one withdrawal, maybe more of them. But her 1958 withdrawal by the East San Diego Church of Christ for “sowing discord and causing division” is one I’ve been able to document with a photocopy of the letter of withdrawal. A letter of withdrawal is something the mainline churches provide, but Stanton prefers not to leave a paper trail—it’s easier to rewrite or completely hide its history that way.
We know that Merie did not come back from this withdrawal. To her, her “rightness” in her own eyes justified her defiance of the withdrawal. But for those of you still in Stanton, does this sound a little bit hypocritical? I thought someone withdrawn from unjustly should keep quiet until church leaders reached the conclusion that the withdrawal was unjust. Why the double standard for your founder?
Merie declared that the mainline churches had “lost the candlestick,” in the early 1970’s. This means the church that withdrew from her in 1958, by her own teaching, was the Lord’s church. She should have honored that withdrawal without “murmuring” about her teachers and preachers. Merie, a murmurer? Yes, there’s no way to plow around this stump, Stanton. Using your own definition and rules regarding murmuring and withdrawal, Merie was a withdrawn from murmurer when she started the Stanton churches.
Merie justified her behavior by saying the original churches had “lost the candlestick.” How could she know this without miraculous revelation? Yet we’re supposed to just follow a fallible woman’s teachings by faith, without questioning them, because she was so much older and wiser than the rest of us. Really? The Bible says to check everything against the scriptures, like the Bereans, and if someone is claiming to have special knowledge that isn’t spelled out in the Bible, well—you’ll forgive me if I’m not that trusting. I choose to accept the Bible alone as my authority.
The facts are clear. The real Off Church was the one started by Merie. Are there sincere but mistaken believers in their fold? Very likely. But anyone who has come to the conclusion that Stanton is built upon a house of cards, Biblically, and continues to support and defend it, is doing wrong. If you know to do good and don’t do it, it is sin, right?
So express your doubts about Merie’s leadership, and the unbiblical birth of Stanton. You can even question the veracity of this blog, as well, right here on these pages. I welcome it, because I know that truth doesn’t need to be afraid of a lie. But for your own sake, question your teachers and evangelists with boldness, like the Bereans. Do it in a humble spirit of truth-seeking, but don’t take the threat of withdrawal for murmuring as an answer. Get to the bottom of your questions. I dare you.
One quick comment on something that bothered my conscience was the constant repeating that all other churches were doomed to hell. I often wondered how they could declare this. I'm sure that I got the answer others did. Something like We would know if there were more. God would reveal that to us.
Yeah, you'll get answers. Whether they are TRUTH is a whole different matter.
Their confidence that all others are going to hell is only because of their blind faith in Merie's opinion that the "candlestick" had been removed from the mainline churches. Declaring those churches "off" was just a convenient way to justify her defiance of one or more withdrawals. It was a brilliant self-deception—she no doubt convinced herself of its truth, because if the church were declared "off," their withdrawal(s) didn't have to be honored. Problem solved. Read her divisive rhetoric in the founding docs. This was a woman who saw herself as the leader of a rebellion against paid preachers (which… Read more »
Since they love to constantly talk about how everybody is going to hell,the way I think is they shouldn't be so concerned about us as they don't want to have to explain themselves at all.
Doing a quick Facebook check I see that DWC is currently attending a mainline Church of Christ. She sure hasn't changed in looks or mannerisms much. It looks like she gave up on the "start your own church" idea and has joined forces with the people who she once taught were as dead as door nails. Maybe there is hope for her yet! (smile) I personally wonder where DWC now stands on the teachings and conduct of Merie since Merie was so vehemently against the "off church". In her defense, she had no choice but to go out and start… Read more »
DWC was in Phoenix on her way to a premeeting with the evangelist in Spring Valley prior to her getting kicked out and she did a question and answer session with the single women and one of the young ladies had to leave to get her child from babysitting and after she left DWC made the remark the she walked away because she did not like what was being said. I asked the young mother why she left and she said it was to get her child and no she did not "run away " because she did not like… Read more »
Starting your own church is a lot of work. A new church is like a new baby in that it needs constant attention and love. I had the privilege of helping to start two different churches. The teaching preachers took the opportunity to express how little they thought of us, the helpers, while we were doing all of the labor to get the new church birthed. From raising their voices at you during a non member class every time you look down to write a scripture so the audience would think the teaching preacher was trying to keep you awake,… Read more »
Oppression teaches you some very important life skills. One skill is self encouragement, because when you are under oppression you will find no encouragement from anyone but yourself. You encourage yourself by reminding yourself that the promises of God are true. You encourage yourself by telling your self the story in John 2 where Christ's mother said they have no wine and Christ turned the water into wine and the governor of the feast chided the host saying you have saved the best wine for last is a metaphor for life and the best part is at the last and… Read more »
How twisted and insane thinking this is
Discouragement no longer affect me oppressor. Insults are not edifying but they do reveal your wicked heart. I think I have struck a nerve sharing how to cope with oppression. Your petty comment reveals just how weak you are, no counter argument, no experience of enduring oppression to share with others, no better way to cope with oppression just a fiery dart. You don't deceive anyone Satan.
Anon on October 4 at 9:45 PM-wow! Your last post was definitely strong and certainly uncalled for. You sound an awful (and I do mean awful) lot like the teachers and leaders in Merie's group. Number one, you ASSUMED that the person has a wicked heart, based only on a post! And then to say that the other person's post was "petty" reveals how judgmental you are. While you are correct that there are things we can learn while being oppressed, it doesn't give you a right to come on here and belittle someone who's opinion is different than yours.… Read more »
Psychologists look at faith this way: "There is little doubt that in times of stress, particularly when under prolonged duress, some people are able to draw upon an inner reserve of energy to help them through the more psychologically and physiologically crippling phases. This character trait is called "spirituality" by psychologists. Christ said in John 4:32 I have meat to eat that ye know not, he was talking about faith, our inner strength comes from our faith. Equally the lack of inner strength has been frequently observed: the loud mouth person who is the center of attention, willing to take… Read more »
Debby Stevens let me put it in this context: One day I was in the evangelist's house in Spring valley and he was on the phone giving council to a teacher, in a congregation somewhere. He told the teacher "reprove them and if they don't stand up and confess right away, then you know what to do! There are somethings the human spirit cannot stand!" This shows that the evangelist does not build up others faith but rather he know how to destroy a person both spiritually and psychologically. This is the current leader of the SCOC. It is through… Read more »
A study of constant criticism and how it wears down those around them will reveal the main teaching method of the SCOC. It's not the doctrine that is taught or not taught but the method of how church leadership manages it members that reveals their wickedness. Constant criticism is a weapon of the wicked to destroy others but there are cures to heal the wounds that criticism causes. One cure is refusing to believe the criticisms which neutralize its effects. I found many teacher and preachers just "doing what they are told" by leadership with no real understanding of what… Read more »
Anon 1:00, I just think we need to be extremely careful to not blame the victims of abusive or oppressive behavior, meaning justify or minimize it while looking the other way to wrongs done by leaders. I'm never suggesting that victims of wrongdoing spend their lives "camping" in victimhood. But Stanton has a way of using a good principle like personal responsibility to justify the continuation of unloving, harmful behavior—as if no matter what negative thing happens, it's OK, because we are all expected to just deal with it and grow from it. By that logic, a child who is… Read more »
Agreed. The point I am dealing with is that abuse has already occurred and how to mitigate its effects. I saw members made the object of criticism by leadership over and over again. If you disagreed with leadership or simply did not agree fast enough you were made the object of criticism. Members became demoralized and suffered the withdrawal of emotional support from leadership. I consider the evangelist on the same skill level of emotional manipulation as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Charles Manson, Shoko Asahara, Marshal Applewhite, to name just a few. So many members are just mind numbed followers… Read more »
I should add that the poster on Oct 4 @ 9:13 PM is the evangelist in Spring Valley himself. The evangelist has a long history of personally attacking his enemies and not generally attacking sin. His attacks and eventually driving people out of the SCOC include but are not limited to your brother in law, Matt, DWC in Des Moines, an unknown preacher in Boise identified as having filthy dreams, and many more. I do not idly tolerate him questioning my sanity as his comment implies. His personal attack would cause one to question their own sanity, a tactic common… Read more »
Well said Anon at 3:58. My point was that his attack was uncalled for. And his accusations were from left field. You are right in saying that this is one of the tactics that the leaders in the group use. One tried another tactic on me earlier by stating "I know you and your history well!" It to strike fear into our hearts! But the thing is, none of them know me, let alone well. They only think they do. What they do know is only what they were told by others, which are based on evil surmisings and assumptions.… Read more »
Re:AnonymousOctober 4, 2017 at 9:13 PM "How twisted and insane thinking this is" Are you open for an open debate? I would really love to debate the leaders in this church. I was limited in what I could when I was always accused of untruthful things, with unscriptural directions and reproofs, and how the congregation has been conditioned to follow only partial scriptures. I want all of this brought out into the open to where everybody can see what is done in secret and unscrpturally. I want to know if you are convicted enough to defend what you believe in… Read more »
The doctrine that leadership uses to manage church members is not the doctrine of Christ. I can easily identify the psychological tools of fear, obligation, and guilt being used by leadership to control members, but cannot find it in the Bible. Leadership consistently bullies members and then when members push back leadership plays the victim. The bully/victim style of leadership takes advantage of the emotions of fear and guilt to dominate and control members for the leaders ego gratification. The iron fist in a velvet glove is a good description of the current leader, do as I say or I… Read more »
Gee Whiz can't an Evangelist Catch a Break around here? Now GP you only said but a few words and you got outed and criticized. Don't you want to set these people straight about you. Seems like your wife doesn't hide so well with the personas of Concern for the flock. Perhaps Little Bo-Peeping-Paula should reveal her true identity, since you are both such sincere Truth-Tellers. No, not really truth-tellers, more like, you are both are criminals and cohorts in a Bonnie and Clyde destructive path to your own demise. Only the people you are leaving behind have not died,… Read more »
And here is a good example of why you will never entice anyone still in the Stanton churches to speak up. It would be casting pearls before swine.
Christ did give the general warning In Mathew 7:6 not to give that which is Holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you but Christ gave pearls to Judas and he turned and killed Christ so doctrine and example are both there in the Bible. There are swine in the SCOC such as felony child abusers, pedophiles, convicted rapists on parole, preacher who was arrested for indecent exposure, and many others. They are in denial about their own place before God. Judgment needs to begin… Read more »
Well no one can entice the leaders in Merie's church to speak up. They certainly won't debate leaders of mainstream Cocs. Heck, they are scared to publish their talks and any info. Not because the gov't would get them. No in reality it's because their own words would come back to haunt them, especially each time they changed their doctrine, I mean, judgements.But the whole pearls before swine comment is so telling and totally something someone in Merie's church would say. That place uses the bible, not to be righteous, but rather to be SELF-righteous. The we're ABOVE you attitude.… Read more »
Mathew 7:6 Give not that which is Holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn again and rend you. This is an interesting metaphor Holy refers to something dedicated to a religious purpose and you find with Christ and the apostles what he gave them was not riches or houses or positions of authority but knowledge. Pearls refers to wisdom which is obtained by applying knowledge and developing understandings. Dogs is a comparison not between the physical attributes between humans and dogs but the comparison is with behaviors that… Read more »
And yet Christ ate and drank with sinners…..and those who are well don't need a physician, only the sick….
MY point exactly! You don't read accounts of Christ eating with the leaders, not the religious leaders nor the secular leaders of his day though he himself was a king. The high and mighty are not what they seem as the look down upon those around them they were filled with pride and as such were not taught the gospel but the lowly in heart were. You can be open and honest about your faults and be accepted by God or you can hide your faults and pretend to be better than others and be rejected by God. Everybody has… Read more »
It is very interesting to look into God's word. On one side you have the law of God which when taken to extremes condemns every man and the love of God which if also taken to extremes allows every evil person into the kingdom of God and nullifies the law. Which is correct law or love? Both are, man needs both the law of God for guidance and the love of God for mercy when we fail. Christ condemned religious leaders yet he himself was a religious leader. So then what is God talking about? Who is acceptable and who… Read more »
I forgot to add the conclusion: so where is the SCOC at before God? I left a SCOC that no longer used God's word for guidance but instead was ruled by people who were both lawless and merciless, ungodly religious people. Jesus Christ was not the center of attention, and neither was Merie, but the people who would say "Merie said" were the controlling members and the law they taught and followed whatever aggrandized themselves before the members, they had highjacked the faith of many from following Christ to following themselves. I rejected the SCOC for not having the law… Read more »
Anon 8:36. Your description there of law and love/mercy is GRACE. I've been studying that because I never really learned about grace in the SCOC. It's there for when something seems impossible for us to overcome. God's grace, particularly when we are trying, yet still failing, is yet another one of His perfect gifts. I am certainly glad to see how much it is mentioned in the New Testament. And I wish I had known it more in-depth and properly been taught it as I believe it leads one to be a more content Christian. As someone mentioned in an… Read more »
It is such a beautiful thing when a Christian studies their Bible and develops understandings it is like building a house on a solid rock foundation. Many people I know personally claim to be Christians but have built their house on other books like the Christian Baptist by Alexander Campbell, or cassette tapes of Merie and use "Merie said" as their doctrine anything other than the bible is a foundation of sand which will last for a while but when the hard times come they are in trouble as their unstable foundation crumbles from under them. He that gathers by… Read more »
Thanks Anon. I have to credit the elders and preacher at the COC I now go to. While at Merie's church I did HEAR that other religions don't study in context, but neither do they! Most classes and sermons were topical and especially nonmember classes too. SO MUCH jumping around! Even when we were studying one chapter/verses, the sharing naturally picked up one topic and jumped around. The problem with that is that we were many times connecting things that were not relevant or completely out of context. I am now trying to study in context to understand the situation… Read more »
Most classes and sermons I heard were diatribe and and not much else. So many times it was a pointed attack against someone in the cross hairs of the teacher/preacher. One sermon from the tow truck preacher was from Zechariah 3:1 where it says Joshua was before the Lord and Satan was at his right hand to resist him; and how that now I was Satan to him because I was at his right hand serving at the Lords table but was told to sit down for missing a first Friday of the month class. He roasted me over an… Read more »
The sermons really went after the masturbaters,fornicators, people that caused problems in the congregations by sewing seeds of discord. So I guess to those who fell under those sins these sermons would have been ' diatribe' at best. What is the matter with a church going after sin and the things of satan i'll never know. They should only preach on love for pity's sake.
I finally found this again. It is a talk one of the Evangelists did. This is important to me because I called him to Tacoma for the vary same reasons he is speaking of and it was turned against me. I, also, believe that this is a huge problem through out the churches. This talk was about those in the church who needed help spiritually, emotionally, and physically. He goes on to say what part in his own live was "in the valley" and he needed help on. Here is what was said: Don't Forget Them In The Valley 3/5/08… Read more »
Anon @ Oct 11 10:37 am Your being disingenuous to say the least. The sermons I heard over the first three years were "I love the evangelist" or "I hate you and your going to Hell" from the tow truck preacher and then the next nine from the preacher from Albuquerque were so boring I can barely remember any of them as I was trying to fight off sleep due to boredom. The sin that was not taught on is what is really a pity. Sins like child abuse, men forbidden to work and women supporting the men repeatedly. Never… Read more »
Anon Oct 11 @ 10:37 If the sermons went after masturbation, fornication, people that caused problems by sowing discord then please explain the behaviors in Prescott congregation with one preacher from Great falls MT being arrested for indecent exposure, the baptizing of a convicted rapist on parole (who reoffended the day his parole was over and was sent back to prison) The football player preacher being withdrawn from for uncleaness for five weeks then two weeks later preaching again so the tow truck preacher could go to Vallejo CA, then had to be brought down to Phoenix and sat down… Read more »
One of the "fruits" or identifying behaviors, of masturbation is lack of natural affection, that is being merciless toward others, found in Romans 1:22-32. I ask all readers to judge on this fruit the following observed behaviors from church leaders: tying children to beds, did the woman who teach this have natural affection? The beating of two year old children with a fiberglass rod until you bruise them, did this woman have natural affection? the beating of your fourteen year old son until he ran away, did this man have natural affection? The convicted rapist, did he have natural affection?… Read more »
Anon Oct 11 @10:37 You are clearly just like the leadership of the cult. Focused on SEX and exposing others to your own views of sex. It IS NOt a church's responsibility to "Go after sin" It is their responsibility to Teach from a book and not to teach from the words of some old spinster of the 50'sYes just by your last comment , it displays your lurid obseesion to know "who is mastubating in my church" "Who is having sex that I am not having" No that's Not teaching that's Inquisition. Maybe the moniker should be Perverted P… Read more »
Briefly reading these comments to it does not appear any of you are growing but just going over the same old gripes and my my going back to quotes from yesteryears. Find a healthy church and bible study and get a counselor outside of the church and learn to live again. Free yourselves…everyday you spend on complaining and griping is a wasted day. Listen to yourselves, This little dead witch (Merie) still has control of you from the grave?
Anon 8:30: unfortunately, cults such as Merie's do leave lasting scars and collateral damage. Personally, I am free of that place and am certainly thankful for that freedom. However, I now have kids who won't speak to me because of this place. Honestly, if not for that, I wouldn't give it a second thought. Also, it would be nice if people from there just left us alone. Some try contacting my teen who lives with me. DS, wife of JS navy man, called me twice and left messages for us to return a couple things (tapes). It literally makes me… Read more »
It is exposing the unscriptural methods of control that is important. One false teaching is that of one brother/ one sister. Any time a scripture was brought up that leadership did not want to follow the would use:"well one time one brother /one sister did that and it did not work out so that's why we won't do that", And they make the scriptures of none effect, through their use of one brother/ one sister false teachings. Going after those who cause problems in the congregations by sowing (not sewing) seeds of discord was not done but they in fact… Read more »
Anon, that may have been your experience but, unless you are being sarcastic, I'm not sure why you'd say it is a good learning experience. Learning can happen in any environment. However, from what I've seen, especially from children raised in Merie's church, is that instead they want nothing to do with God AT ALL. Having heard all their lives day in and day out that this is the One True Church, and hating it, they leave to pursue a Godless life. That is one of the major damages of religious cults. There's plenty of ways to learn life wisdom… Read more »
Kevin, while I was in the church some had nothing good to say about fostering and it almost sounded like it was not allowed. Maybe they were just really against it? I always thought wow, selfish people and it was really sad. Four different people were against it that I mentioned it to. Are they totally against it do you know?
As humans, we can and do (in fact, we must) learn from negative as well as positive experiences. That's what makes us human and not simply reflexive animals. We have autonomy, self-direction. But saying what we *do* have—an imperfect world where we face evil and must make the best of it nonetheless—is not the same as agreeing that's what we *should* have. What makes us humans, made in the image of God, is our understanding of "is vs. ought." It's our moral judgement of right and wrong, good and bad, or sometimes, bad and better. We can always see what… Read more »
Anon 2:13, I give a lot of grace on the subject of fostering. For us, it's a ministry. It's how my family serves the "least of these." But others have different gifts and callings. To me, though, a theology that looks down on fostering is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ. I have to give my parents credit. Their generation did not look kindly upon foster parenting or adopting in general. We got a lot of flack when we first expressed interest in adopting our first two girls from foster care. All we heard for the longest time was… Read more »
Sorry about the sarcasm. 🙂
M Long no not being sarcastic at all. I went through oppression in the military then in the SCOC and from time to time on the job. Oppression is part of life and to survive one must develop coping skills and one skill is to pull something good out of every bad situation. I was taught negative thinking, by leadership in the SCOC. Everything that happened or did not happen was a curse or punishment from God, it was a negative religion, God did not do anything good for the Christians in the SCOC. Nothing was ever mentioned about the… Read more »
I forgot to add coping strategies. Cooperation and collaboration, coping and compliance, or evasion and resistance. The Pharisees used cooperation and collaboration with the Romans and it led to their eventual destruction as a nation. Many men choose cooperation and collaboration with the tow truck preacher and it led to the destruction of their families. I used evasion and resistance with the oppressive tow truck preacher and it worked for a short time but he increased his oppression and I had to change to cooperation and compliance to remain in the SCOC. The tow truck preacher was very observant and… Read more »
I have a question. DWC was kicked out of the Stanton churches because of oppression, murmering, etc. Did the churches changed with her gone or are they the same?
That congregation may have gotten better changes because she was gone, but the church, overall, is the same. I knew her in the 80's as she came to Tacoma once a week and we had our 1st Friday classes. She was so nice, but when I came back in 1999 I saw a huge difference in here at my first Boise 4th of July meeting. There was a huge darkness. My whole contention is that there is a great lack of love throughout the churches and she displayed a lot of it. The leaders have either forgotten or dismissed that… Read more »
I'm not saying they promote it but Merie's church has softened in the area of fostering and adopting. We fostered a 17yr old last year (that was tough!) And I know of several families who have fostered and adopted. One was unable to bear children and I believe the other took in a child of a person raised in Merie's church.
Softened? To me they should be keeping their mouths shut if it's not a sin. What we do in our lives is not their business if it's not a sin. They just take it upon themselves that it is their business and want to Yap out their opinions when their opinions are not needed.
So I was looking at DWC's commentary at http://yourchurchtoo.blogspot.com/?m=0 . I had run into it years ago. Of course I had been told by Merie's church to ignore it. I do find her accusations interesting. For one, even though she's wrong, it is an example of the drama and self-righteousness that is persistent in Merie's church. Probably because SHE (Merie) was like that. Everything was harsh, negative, a rebuke or reproof. Everyone but her was wrong. The commentary also shows how idolized Merie was. While I don't see that idolatry of Merie in the younger generation, I certainly see them… Read more »
Anyway, the commentary is over 10 yrs ago. I hope she is doing well where she is and learning to follow Christ and not man, as we all should be. 🙂
She is doing well and learning not to follow man.
The commentary because of my remarks "how twisted and insane this thinking is" are very difficult to read. If I understand all the remarks correctly you are assuming they came from an envangalist. Not true. I said it and perhaps it was too strong but I do think some of these comments are not coming from the kind of Christians I know and if they were I would run. Perhaps I should have used twisted and bizarre instead. Just all very odd and disturbing to me that all of this is from Believers who say they love our powerful and… Read more »
Anon I think I understand what you're saying. Unlike a church sharing you may be used to, this blog is open for all to comment and share. There are even avowed Atheists who comment on here. People who have been damaged by the sect's teachings and are angry or hurt or want nothing to do with God even. That's one reason Merie's church is dangerous. It doesn't promote or create what the New Testament aims to accomplish. It leaves a lot of humans damaged. And you may be witnessing some of that here. It's part and parcel of this blog.
I apologize for making the assumption that it was the evangelist who made the post. I made the assumptions due to similar mannerisms of criticisms without any basis. Please explain your conclusions for twisted and insane thinking from the scriptures. I read of David in the old testament who had to flee from King Saul when he turned evil, just how does one deal with wicked authority? Christ did not fall down and worship Satan, or the Pharisees, or the Scribes, or the Romans, all wicked authorities of his time. In my post of how to internally deal with oppression,… Read more »
It is so ridiculous it is not possible.
Thank you for your comment. You are a troll, nothing good to say about anybody or anything. Everybody please ignore this troll as attention only encourages their evil minds.
Let me check my understandings with all of you. In Matthew 12:42 Christ said that a greater than Solomon is here so I take the life of Christ and apply it to the proverbs and see if they agree. In Proverbs 1:10-19 Solomon gives a warning not to be enticed by sinners and I see that when Christ walked the earth the Romans occupied the nation of Israel and one of the recruitment's of the Roman army is that the soldiers got to divide the spoil of the nations they conquered and I believe some of the Jews joined the… Read more »
I gave it a quick look and first I don't think in Proverbs 1 I would replace wisdom with Christ because, well it's clearly referring to wisdom and knowledge vs fools who want nothing to do with it. I also would connect the whole chapter in context because I read just the scriptures you cited and then I read the whole chapter and I think I came to a bit different outcome. Wisdom and its instruction as well as fear of the Lord are the subject here. As for God refusing to help those who rejected his Son… again, wisdom… Read more »
I agree with M. Long that I wouldn't replace wisdom in the scriptures with Christ BUT; I agree with you Anon at 9:50 am that it does apply with both. The consequences are the same when we reject wisdom and Christ, whether here and now (carnal level) and on a spiritual level. As to whether or not Jews joined the army because of the questioning of John the Baptist, I really can't say. The scriptures don't expound on it, and I don't believe it really matters (in pertaining to our souls and salvation). I don't know if that's what you… Read more »
Anon October 7, 7:57 Actually that church is worse. Example how they handle withdrawal. Unscriptural withdrawals continue. Mark and avoid. Treat them as they are withdrawn from even though they are not. Withdrawing from nonmembers. Time frame when one can come back from withdrawal. When one who has been withdrawn from yet comes to the conclusion they are a nonmember having them go through the withdrawal then talk baptism afterwards. All over the board. Confusion these leaders are from Christians.
Anon 8:30 what is your relations with Merie’s church? Have you had your family life damaged by that church? Have you ever been labeled something that you are not by that church? Gripe? How about facts and truths about a cult that some are exposing.
I always wondered how cult leaders achieved so much control over their followers and the story of Harvey Weinstein explains it. To achieve power over others the arrogant start with humiliation of their targeted victim, then degrading them further, then dehumanizing the victim, then isolating and finally abusing their intended target. I was humiliated very quickly after baptism by the teaching preacher being yelled at for two hours in a bible class going over May week questions. Then being publicly called a fool, and from Acts 8:9-13 look at this man Simon he was a fool and he believed and… Read more »
Keep up the good posts everyone and pray for strength to be able to stand up to the bullies and set boundaries. I know it can be very hard. At least it's is for me in some situations.
For those who can't understand how ones can get into a group like Merie's, and then stay even though it's abusive:The first thing you need to understand is that most folks joined the group because they were looking to find and serve God. They have a good heart, and realize they have many faults that they need to overcome.The leaders in the group recognize this, and prey on it. The new member is lied to, and misled about what the group really teaches. It also lies about the teachers, and how ones become a teacher. I was told that ones… Read more »
I agree, Debby. While many not in the group have sympathized with our situation, I have certainly been asked: How did you let this happen? (Specifically in reference to my older teens not speaking to us because of the sect). I'm almost embarrassed when it's asked. I begin to feel stupid, duped. How DID I NOT SEE this? It's just a slow process that begins to seep into you and your family. You feel like you have so much in common with others in the sect. You begin to follow the example of others who keep non-sect family members at… Read more »
Debbie how long were you in the Stanton churches? Over ten years I believe. Why didn't you leave when you gained knowledge of the scriptures?
Anon on October 14 at 10:39:The reasons why I didn't leave right away are many and varied! But I will do my best to try and answer your question.First off, when I first came into the group I didn't have any knowledge of what the bible said, let alone what it was all about. I wasn't raised with the bible, just what the catholic church taught. Also, having been raised in the catholic church, I was taught to believe, trust and obey the "spiritual" ones in the church!So it took me years to study and learn and understand things in… Read more »
There are so many reasons that Merie's group is so dangerous to people's souls and their salvation, that it would take up too much space and time to list it all.But the most dangerous thing that they teach, and will not bend on, is that they teach and believe that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES GOING TO HEAVEN. They teach that everyone else is going to hell.And the reason? They say it's because 1) they are the only ones who have the truth2) they are the only church3) they are the only ones who understand the scriptures and know what… Read more »
Just a clarification-When I said the scriptures in them are NOT laws, I meant the scriptures that are the letters to the Christians in the New Testament. Paul, John, James, Peter, etc. did not make up new laws in those letters. They expounded on them, reminded the Christians of them, gave examples, etc. But they did NOT make up new ones for us to follow! Hope that helps!
Debby, good summary on the dangers and lies being taught in Merie's church. Very much agree and wish I'd seen it sooner too.
Debby, that was a great answer to the question. I wonder total hypothetical question which Merie’s church at least in Portland do not like to be asked. Any how what if another church somewhere taught exactly the same as Merie’s church. Would Merie’s church welcome them into fellowship. If the other church had elders and evangelists would Merie’s church leaders yield any authority. Just interesting thinking about it. Any thoughts?
I found the methods of control to be disturbing. The main tool was fear. Members lived in fear of leaders and public rebukes. Chilling stories of ex members were told constantly to keep members in the church, (as bad as the church was it was worse losing your mind due to falling away and giving into uncleanness) Betrayal was a common tool as well, no matter what you said to a friend in the church it was brought out in class against you, there was no one you could trust with with any conversation. Many members believed everything they were… Read more »
Anon 9:18 Merie’s church period is disturbing. Anyone doubt such read this entire blog and the comments. Inside the church though I was never really a member I recognized disturbing things throughout my 20 years. I was just stupid enough to remain amongst them. I agree with the fear factor which is man fearing. My life this past 5 months has been the best in the past 20 years 5 months if you get my point. Other than my wife who is in bondage to Merie’s church I couldn’t be happier and I do not fear anything that church had… Read more »
Phobia indoctrination does occur. What would happen if I leave was surpassed in my mind by: what would happen to me if I stay? You can see the future just by looking at older people and in the church looking at the older members. I saw in older members and in my future little of salvation but continual stories of all who went before falling away. I wondered where was the roll call of the faithful in the modern church as we read about in Hebrews 11. I never heard a story about the life and times of faithful members… Read more »
Craig, I asked that, once. When I saw what Tacoma was doing I was looking into other Churches of Christ and there are some that use building, that are not religious buildings, that say, "Church of Christ Meets Here". I asked if there were any others that could be of the truth and was told no, that if they were of the truth they would already be a part of them.
Rejection is an shocking part of the SCOC. A member can be, and many have been, rejected by leadership and persecuted out of the SCOC. Just when a member is rejected is unclear; I have seen members rejected for being stubborn and refusing to submit to leadership, and for unrepented sin. The person who makes the decision is usually a counselor but can be the local teacher as well. You may believe you are a striving Christian but if your local teacher or regional or national leaders say you must be driven out then you are driven out without question… Read more »
I’m thankful I’m a reject from Merie’s church. Life hasn’t been better being away from the hypocrisy, lying, gossiping and murmuring that I was often subject too. Life is awesome outside of that oppressive church. All the churches I’ve attended since have put Merie’s church to shame with the preaching, singing (Portland’s singing is horrible), doctrine, fellowship, real Christians and love.
A reject of the nonmember that I am I should add. Something else that is way off with Merie’s church. You think they would look to draw people in and persuade those who disagree with the error of their ways. But as mentioned easier to reject them than contend.
I agree Craig, about how much better life is outside of the group! It was also a little scary at first, but what a relief I felt!! A heavy burden was lifted off of me, and my stomach problems disappeared.But Anon at 8:59, I would like to clarify something you said, and expound on it a little. I'm hoping you won't take it as criticism directed at you, because that's not what I'm trying to do. You said one of the reasons the leaders reject a member is for unrepented sin. Sometimes this is true, but what I saw happening… Read more »
Thank you Debbie for expanding on this important topic. One of the worst feelings is that no one loves you, or that you are unlovable, or that God does not love you. I freely express how much I love different individuals on this blog to defeat this tactic. Rejection is not without scriptural precedence but I saw that they were throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The love of power obtained through rejection was the center of evil teachers lives, I am so powerful because I can reject others was an attitude I saw at different times. One woman… Read more »
Anon, yes it is true that Merie's church uses rejection and making you feel unloved as a weapon. Thankfully in my case I was the one who rejected the sect. But they're still using 2 I love there to reject me and hurt me. It's so sad how they twist scriptures, but that is what religious cults have always done, isn't it?Debby, I had a situation happen shortly before I left that really gave me insight into how our main preacher JS felt about me. A help was needed to get someone out of a financial situation. Some of us… Read more »
M. Long and Anon at 5:03:Yes, that is what the leaders/teachers in the group do-make you feel as though you are not only unloved, but are unlovable! To make you feel there is something seriously wrong with you, so much so that they are the only group that will put up with you.I can relate, my teacher told me that the problem was "your personality! It's offensive!"When I talked to him about this, he didn't understand how wrong it was to say that, but he did ask my forgiveness for it. But that's all-I ask your forgiveness for saying it.… Read more »
JS is the navy man previously in Memphis. He came to S.A. about 3 yrs ago or so.
Your example is so similar to that experience of mine. No true asking forgiveness about the actual issue (attacking my character), just that things got out of hand.
Anyone with a questioning personality is going to get reproved there!
Thanks M. Long! The reason I asked was to get clarification. You see, JS is the one that had to come to Lakeland/Tampa to deal with my teacher. One of the things he had to correct my teacher on was saying to me that my personality was offensive! My teacher only made the confession after JS came and talked to him. So it's ironic that he then turned around and did and said basically the same thing to you! I would not have expected that of him, and it's very disappointing that he did.But it remains true to the character… Read more »
As I was listening to the news this morning and they were talking about all the sexual misconduct in Hollywood from producers,directors who preyed on these women it made me think of the church. It is very similar to how a cult operates….secrets and more secrets. I am believing more and more these little weasels who call themselves teachers and preachers are no better …
One of the scriptural precedents for rejection is the story of Cain and Able. Cain was reproved by God for his unacceptable sacrifice and he in turn killed his brother. This story tells us several important things; number one Proverbs 9:8 reprove not a scorner lest he hate thee. Cain scorned and hated God and took it out on his closest personage: Able. It also tells us how the superiority complex or arrogant person thinks and how the conscience or equity person thinks. Cain thought himself superior even though he had not done the work required of him to please… Read more »
Anon I can see your point here. Sadly the SCOC thinks they have the market on mark&avoid. But Yes, we can apply it back to them also. I can say I avoid them too. When DS called me twice last week I avoided answering those calls. They seem to think it only works in their favor but it doesn't. We can avoid them just as well! Your comparison to Cain is interesting. He was clearly proud and self-righteous. He worked hard (like they do with works) but was not approved because his heart was not right. The SCOC will say… Read more »
Debby Stevens October 17, 2017 at 3:31 PM
I know exactly what you are talking about. A preacher, in Tacoma, who has been in since the mid 70's, got told through the grape vine that they did something wrong against me. His confession, if you can call it that, was, "I'm IF I offended you".
There is a great disconnection with what the scriptures teach and what they actually practice.
M Long October 18, 2017 at 4:26 PM This is exactly the position I took when it was time to leave. I took their sins to them and they brushed it off, I took it to DS, and the Tacoma preacher and his wife discredited me, I took it GP and all but ignored me, I then took it to TC and he supported the congregation and call me a busy body and to get a job. I'm disabled. I studied and prayed for many years on this and the only conclusion I could come up with was to count… Read more »
Titus 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself is the scripture used by the evangelist in Spring Valley to reject people. Subverted being defined as being perverted or corrupted; lacking morals, allegiance, or faith. Something inside the person is wrong so reject them, (if I remember his understanding correctly, if has been over 15 years since I heard this understanding so I may be off a little.) If I am subverted why not teach me the bible and give me morals, allegiance, and faith? I found for myself that most of my… Read more »
They don't know what law is. To lay a foundation – When my condition was getting worse there were a lot of times I was in so much chronic pain that I didn't want to deal with anybody and I was on such nasty medication that it kept me loopy. People form the church would try to show, and most of the time was to try to convince me to push my flesh. Not help. Well, I asked if people would call first before just showing up on my door step. They didn't want it that way and would do… Read more »
Anon 9:48 if that was the reason the SV guy rejected people he also needs to reject himself. Lol
Lynn that's funny about people just showing up. It rarely happened to us because we live in such a large city in the outskirts that no one is gonna drive all this way without verifying we're home! But yes they still teach things like don't live in gated communities for that same reason. Funny though if u live in an apartment it's ok if there's a gate and you'll need access to get in. The rules there are silly, but worse than that, those should all be personal decisions that have nothing to do with going to heaven. Yet another… Read more »
Ok. I read but I'm confused about the gated community. Do not live there because one can't get in to visit? I'm really laughing here. Who thinks up this stuff even if it's for a different reason. Oh dear me!
I love you Paula! xoxoxoxoxoxox!
The preacher from the south, CS, stated that he had people following him home after mid week class to visit and actions like this should be allowed.
They put more emphasis on unlawful things like this rather than the consideration you should have for each other. So, what you want to impose on other members is more protected than the personal wishes of the members and if you don't then you are unloving and in sin.
Also, it was stated by a seasoned preacher, "why wouldn't you have it so?". Meaning that why wouldn't you have it that way in which other members can impose their will on you.
For those not familiar with Merie's group, what Lynn is saying may be difficult to believe. But it's true.If ones came to see you at your home, especially teachers, you had better answer your door and let them in. If not, they will expect (demand) an answer as to why you weren't home. If you don't answer your phone, it's the same thing. You had better have a good reason why you weren't at home, and if they left a message you had better call them back. It was the same thing when another member would call you to "ask"… Read more »
Sounds awful! I could not live that way at all.
Evil surmising plays a huge part in their "counseling". If they have partial information and/or don't understand a situation that can be surmised one way or the other they almost always choose the negative way.
One of the Evan. evil surmised something right in front of me. Over second hand information he chose to pick the negative way and labeled it as sin.
Now you have these fictitious sins out there birthed from evil surmising. This sets an almost unlivable tone in the congregation among your own brethren.
There is a saying that the religious world uses that I heard one of the Evangelists say in a talk.
"Only Christians shoot their wounded."
If this is a well know practice in the churches, then why is it still prevalent? This practice is in their faces and they still justify it, blow it off, and/or make the victim be at fault.
What if you were getting phone calls while having sex with your non-member husband? How do you handle that one? Yes this happened to us several times. Want to know how we handled it Paula? Oh!, you already got that from your Inquisition. How embarrassing for her and how infuriating for me, and how satisfying for GP & PP. They were in our bed an awful lot. These are demented, evil, degrading leaders. Their followers are lost in illusions of their own ignorance. I don't believe the Bible is what most claim it to be, but even the Bible warns… Read more »
kevin, really this is allowed on your site.??
Luke 6:45 "for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." People whose verbal conversation is sexually centered are sexually centered in their hearts and minds, they are constantly calling attention to sexually related topics. I had to endure under a sexually centered teacher for two and a half years, he was constantly calling everything a fruit of masturbation, or talking about other men having wet dreams, or questioning members if they themselves were having wet dreams, or if they were touching themselves, he was unclean in his mind and it showed in his constant attention to all things… Read more »
Members of Merie’s church should be utterly disgusted and disturbed if they are reading this blog and it’s comments. Embarrassed from head to toe to be a part of something so deplorable. I hope every member gets to read this blog and follow your conscience afterwards. Absolutely no good conscience could continue in this sham that claims to be the one and only true church.
Uncleanness has many forms but the results are the same to those who listen to the unclean, they become sexualized. We are "holier than thou" because we are anti sexual is a deception. Those who teach self control should be an example of self control and be desexualized in their conversations and teachings. To everything there is a time a place and those teachers who take sexual matters out of their appropriate time and place should be shunned at the least, and perhaps be identified and rejected as false teachers.
Anon 12:33 who do you think put this that mindset in the young members minds at the time? Easy guess for me would be Merie Weiss who obviously had a screw or two loose upstairs in her mind. If you read about the mindset of John Harvey Kellogg it makes you wonder if Merie followed some of his wicked and wierd ways. The entire Merie church must be rejected for its false ways. They are off as off can get. Very sickening that they are so deceived in what they believe in. True workers of Satan they are.
The SCOC is quick to label someone as unclean and the reject them. While it is true that uncleanness, that is, being sexualized, in all of its forms, is not a good thing, there was no understanding on how to desexualize yourself or another person like one of your children. Solomon said in Proverbs 26:20 where no wood is the fire goeth out, and I find that when a person stops willing exposing themselves to sexual environments, like tv, movies, magazines, and worse, the sexual desires decrease to normal. I left a sexualized church although it claimed to be anti… Read more »
Kevin! How dare you allow sex to be spoken of on your blog?!!! It's not like Merie's church ever talked about it! Seriously, whoever left that comment is joking or literally deaf to what is taught in Merie's church. Just this last year my kids came home laughing n giggling about a member's confession of having SEX in the parking lot of a shop on the same block as the Church building.. during class time! KIDS had to hear all the crass details! How many classes mention p*rn, masturbation, etc. IN DETAIL ? How many confessions and withdrawals are TOO… Read more »
Anon 10/21 at 8:51AM – Hypocrite! The SCOC violates children's ears constantly by their sexualized interrogations of parents in homes or in front of entire congregations filled with little ones! Parents who should be immediately standing up and stopping these wicked leaders that are exposing their children to sexualized content instead sit in fear with glazed looks on their faces with broken spirits and don’t say a word.I agree that a great sign of perverted leaders is when their entire focus is on sex- that's a cult. They are a sick group.So KF said sex was interrupted by mandatory phone… Read more »
I may be "unclean" but these leaders are Filthy. They are addicted to inflicting emotional pain upon their followers through public and private degrading sessions. Listen I can attest to the incredible transition my family went through by these charlatans and deceivers. Here's one more real life experience. I , my ex CF, GP and PP all met in my home to discuss the matter of my then wife resisting sex with her husband. Yes, your are hearing this. GP & PP personally visited with me to discuss SEX. They already formed their opinion of me years before. But because… Read more »
What you have experienced is called psychological domination and not Christianity. You have been bullied into obedience through strong psychological methods. Public humiliation and the fear of public humiliation keeps many quiet about abuses; that is why an outside point of reference (like this blog) is always necessary to point out when leaders exceed and abuse their authority. The invasion of privacy and removal of all privacy boundaries is done to control members through guilt of having their secrets exposed; this is called milieu control.(milieu being a persons social environment). A look at groups who control their members sex lives… Read more »
M. Long you have a strong and valid point. The problem boils down to no elders to hear and take care of public/private problems with wisdom and skill. That kind of teaching and method has been practiced since the Stanton churhes have existed. I'll admit to you I am surprised it is still happening concerning masturbation etc. I thought that was modified at the first Texas May trip a long time ago.
There is a song called “That would be the day” comes to mind reading all the sick ways of this so called church. “That would be the day”anyone in there right mind would let their children listen to all this especially when the word of the day seemed to be “discreet”How many times have we heard the word “discreet” with this crazy cult. Funny thing but the kids as they grow a bit older into teens figure it all out on their own and leave. Thank goodness….get out those of you that are reading this blog. I know some of… Read more »
Anon 822, yup, even as I was writing that I thought how elders are beneficial in these private areas where maybe some advice might be needed PRIVATELY. Our elders told us that even their wives don't know a lot of what we discuss (wasn't about marriage anyway). But truly I am thankful to have found a place with strong Godly men as elders. It's amazing how I believed the SCOC and that no one was worthy yet! Imagine, not one worthy elder in the last 50 years on this entire earth! That is what Merie would have us believe. That… Read more »
Another disturbing practice that needs to be addressed is "breaking a persons spirit." I was told by the tow truck preacher that the evangelist had ordered him to break my spirit. He used the scripture in Proverbs 15:13 "but by the sorrow of heart the spirit is broken." He then proceeded to try and break my spirit with "persecution" which was just constant criticism and angry railing about everything I said or did. What kind of religions "break someone's spirit?": cults. The tow truck preacher was an incredible oppressor but not invincible. I watched the other men who did submit… Read more »
This just isn't right and it isn't just in your congregation. Breaking people down is NOT the purpose of the church. 2 Corinthians 1:6-7 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation. We are supposed to be here for each other. It's hard enough to make… Read more »
They are following a pattern many others have taken to the point of destruction. Psychological domination of others to their own self aggrandizement. Leave your wife over minor issues? What scripture teaches that? In time you will realize as I have (and many others have as well) that they are not following the scriptures but they do use them as bait upon a hook to gain new members and then abandon the scriptures and replace them with their "judgments" instead. David Koresh had memorized the new testament and was able to dazzle and then deceive new members who had no… Read more »
Anon 1:32 Very well said. I can't understand how they don't have the mentality to see all of what they do to people. They will deny such things when this type of stuff is brought up to them. I have seen it. They know what they are doing to members.
Lynn truth of the matter as the theme in Portland towards the last couple or do years of attending was just keep talking, keep talking to the so called counselors anyways. Yes not counseling would be talked about so you felt pressure to counsel though the ones counseling you figured out were not worthy to counsel. Total joke. Purpose of all this is for the counselors to know your business plane and simple. Busybodies they are.
Anon October 24, 2017 at 1:32 PM I know they are not following the scriptures. I took it to almost getting "withdrawn" from questioning their counsel and tactics. I told CS that scripture and example are not the same things there. They are resting on people not having any knowledge. CS said in a sermon that he knows that people there were not studying, but I was and grew very fast there and became a threat. The best way to deal with me was to discredit me and eventually drive me out. One of the female teachers that left us… Read more »
I know from Proverbs 1:20-33 how a wise minister behaves. You go out and spread the gospel of salvation everywhere and most will reject or ignore the call and then you in turn reject them and move on. In time when calamity comes like the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 many of the then elderly Jews would be seeking for the man Christ but would not find him and perish but the elect would be saved by God. I know rejection is part of wisdom. What I saw however was people who heard the call and obeyed in the… Read more »
Marx's theory of alienation basically states that people will do just about anything to avoid being ostracized or ridiculed; that is alienated. Is this what the evangelist in Spring Valley means when he says "there are certain things people can't stand?" Does this identify the communist teaching Merie supposedly adopted? How members are treated differs greatly even when the same sin is being taught against, some for uncleaness were withdrawn from for years and others for just five weeks, why the difference? Why are some members alienated and others not? Does equality exist in judgment of is it based upon… Read more »
Lynn I pra y
you have found a healthy church and are no longer involved with SCOC . I understand chronic pain while many people have no patience for it and do not understand.
It would be interesting to compile a list of where Merie’s church adds and takes away from the words of the Bible.
Craig, the list is so big and the examples so much that an entire blog is dedicated to it. 😉
M Long, you are correct.
Debbie, why did you become a teacher of a church that you knew what wrong?
Anon 1:14 Debby already answered that question above on Oct 15. It's like asking any of us why we stayed. I'm not sure if you are still in or not, but if you are, if you are here it's likely that you are doubting certain things but aren't sure that you'll find God anywhere else, thanks to the cult brainwashing you. For example there was one family member (sort of, by ex) whose baptism I questioned. He had been withdrawn from but I was very concerned because just about everyone in the family shunned him. I told his sisters to… Read more »
Anon at 1:14 PM: I wasn't a teacher when I knew things were wrong. As I started to see things I tried to deal with them, but as they got worse I realized I couldn't teach those things. So I stepped (not sat) down, and the couple that was sent from Memphis took over 100%. It was what they wanted to do, as the preacher/teacher and I didn't see eye to eye on things. And he was upset that I understood things differently than he did. To him, EVERYTHING was black and white. And EVERYTHING had to be dealt with… Read more »
Anon Oct 3rd @ 1:05 interesting concerning the leaders of Merie’s church to admit that the Des Moines decision to mark and avoid was wrong and that withdrawal should’ve been the decision. These are people who claim they have the Holy Spirit. Yet how off they were with that decision and how off they are with many more. Total lack of judgement. They have other poor decisions they need to reconcile as well. Let’s start by the way they treat people members or not who disagree with them. I always believed mark and avoid was withdrawal after studying the topic.
All I can say I am very proud of my son and the fact he left the church and was not withdrawn. He is like my son again reconnecting with his family and friends. He still is compassionate and kind and has such nice manners and has grown since worshipping elsewhere. My prayer the rest of the family will follow and I know God knows about everything and good will come from all of this someday. Keep the faith! Life is good!
Members become entirely dependent upon the preachers and teachers for their social and emotional life. With all outside associations discouraged as "worldly" a new member quickly becomes disassociated from family, friends, and the world. When all outside contact been discouraged and the member is in isolation except for the SCOC there is no social reference to point out abuse. The abuse starts quickly and is taught this is normal behavior, but if you are wise as a new member you will maintain relationships with family as least(and this must be maintained is silence) to give you perspective on abuse. Without… Read more »
We were blessed with lots of activities and dinners with us and family nearby over the years watching and being with our grandchildren.
Sounds so much like Church of Scientology only on a smaller scale and doubt these leaders/teachers are half as intelligent as they think they are to behave like this to their brethren. So sad to read how these deceived people stay in the cults and what happens to their family members who do get out. Shunning over this person but not that person makes no sense to me or others who know about this cult. What I am doing is printing information about this blog and hopefully as one person reads the outsiders as we are called will pass it… Read more »
Yes concerned outsider totalitarian groups (like communism, Scientology, and many other cults large and small) use similar methods. I always wondered how they manipulate and deceive others who are well educated and emotionally balanced. There is a method to their madness, The tactics of a totalitarian groups are subtle but knowable. The four keys to manipulation are; #1 redefining words #2 redirecting #3 consensus building #4 marketing. #3 consensus building is group think. An unethical consensus is dependent upon group think, which in turn is dependent upon maintaining peer pressure, or a mob mentality. What happens to people who object… Read more »
Sounds exactly what is happening ! I am able to continue seeing my family that is still inside and what are your suggestions how to cope with this when two are out and three are in plus one in law?
Where to start? Get the book by Combating cult mind control by Steve Hassan. He was a Jewish kids raised in Manhattan and was recruited into the moonies and he explains how he was influenced and how he was deprogrammed. It is an excellent starting point to understand what is going on inside the minds of your family members and how to gently approach them. Most members are recruited used and then rejected when they question church authority so be patient they may just deprogram themselves when they tire of the abuse.
I would like to point out as well Jo that new recruits are seduced into the different cult groups in similar ways. Cult leaders seduce their followers with promises of a utopian life, secret understandings given in reward for service to the leader, empathetic resonance and healing empathy. What the new member gets is little if nothing of what is promised. Christ promised his followers nothing of the sort on this earth but gave a stark reality of a life of poverty, persecution from religious leaders, and a martyrs death to the Apostles for faithfully following his teachings. It is… Read more »
The 'Tow Truck Preacher' was a large part of why I left the group, because although we were in different congregations, I encountered him often enough to see that he was an evil person who somehow was held in high esteem by the power-brokers in the SCOC. He seemed to enjoy demeaning one young man who was sent to him from the Stanton congregation, and who was one thousands times the man he was — the young acolyte was kind, soft-spoken, intelligent, thoughtful, and had made a meaningful sacrifice by giving up a potentially-lucrative chance to become a pro football… Read more »
Anon 3:00 wow wow unbelievable and this is one of there good men who was labeled basically the brotherhoods most available to go start of help other congregations. What a joke. Very troubling.
The tow truck preacher is indeed a terrible person and best avoided. I am amazed that with his harsh and even cruel treatment of members there was not a suicide. The worst thing he taught us is that oppression is Christianity and after he departed Phoenix members started oppressing the children first and then each other as well. The not NFL man was brought down to Phoenix and sat down for oppressing his wife, which he thought was normal after being under the tow truck preacher in Prescott. I watched the tow truck preacher one night in his house on… Read more »
How many are in this church/cult in Arizona? How is it allowed to even be open? It sounds as if Satan has won over the church/cult and it is a den of evil.
I don't know current membership numbers but it is open and like any other place under the freedom of religion you can believe whatever you want, even if it is harmful to the individual. The tow truck preacher like many narcissist's consider themselves above the law, both the laws of the land and God's law. As his narcissism grew so did his egregious behavior to the point where it became malignant. His tow truck operation ran a foul of the highway patrol and he was threatened with arrest for breaking what he called "technicalities". In the tow business a tow… Read more »
Anon 9:59 due to little to no growth in Merie’s church a large congregation may have 75 members not including children. There are only a handful of there larger churches. I’m guessing Phoenix may be up towards that number of 75 probably less. Prescott Valley would not even be half of that number maybe even a third. 50 years no growth, no elders, no leadership a DEAD church.
Who would want to stay in a dead church where sermons are stale and the congregation just going through the motions and getting through the day. Instead being fed by The Holy Spirit and congregation with real love and joy in their hearts even though some going through trials. I take the later.
Psychology explains it. The fear of loss is greater than the hope of gain. Members are recruited with the promise of salvation and deeper understandings of the scriptures but are held in by the fear of leaving and losing your mind or going to Hell. Who in their right minds would want to willing go to Hell and so many stay hoping it will get better someday. You can neutralize this fear by simply asking: who in this church has died faithful and gone to heaven? If no one inside the church is going to heaven according to teachings of… Read more »
Yes Merie’s church is spiritually dead. In her own words it’s a dead church. Makes me wonder when the current four move on who will replace them. Obviously Merie had know one to replace her. The four current all have had health issues even recently seeing a picture of the main lady teacher with another whom had a stroke. She did not look well maybe the stress of keeping this false chuch a float is taking a toll on the four. I’ve done some research on how to get Merie’s church on a cult watch list. Hopefully this will alert… Read more »
Matthew 13:33 teaches us that the kingdom of God is like unto leaven hidden in three measures of meal until the whole was leaven. What this teaches us is that what you do in one small area of your life will spread to every area of your life. If you study the Bible, even a little bit, you will then start studying in every other area of life as well. If you allow laziness in one small area of life it will spread to every area of life, if you practice the commandments in one small area of life you… Read more »
It was such a beautiful lesson this Lord's day on hidden beliefs. People come to church but struggle in their spiritual development, for some unknown reason people can have a faith in Jesus but not grow. By studying human behavior you can figure out what a person does or does not believe. Being raised with several older brothers I was bullied growing up and I developed a belief of "you can't win". The bullies likes a weak victim and so bullies discourage the person into becoming their willing victim. You learn in time that bullies are not invincible and in… Read more »
One of the hidden beliefs that the SCOC put into me is self criticism. I was constantly criticized until I picked up the habit of self criticism. The SCOC teaches you things without you realizing that you have been taught, their methods are insidious. You can stop the creep by asking if their is a scriptural reason or scriptural example of self criticism and if none then stop the habit and enjoy your life with God doing the leading and reproving and not self.
In my time in the SCOC I was taught by example that arrogance is righteousness. The domination and controlling of others is what the church leaders did. I wondered where can I find an example of a man who walks after his conscience (or woman) to study. I found in Kind David a man who walked after his conscience and shared his thoughts and highs and lows of life in the book of psalms. David in the psalms spoke of equity time and time again. To the evil doers he asked God to punish them and remove them, this is… Read more »
If, as the saying goes, watch what people do more than what they say, I always found it interesting that during my time in the SCOC cult, many, if not most, of the young female baptized members, would find ways to marry men outside of the fold. Although there seemed to be no shortage of eligible young single men, outside of the members who had known and had crushes on each other since they were children, the young women would invite the non-member men they were interested in marrying to a few classes or worship services, the men would be… Read more »
Marriage was not esteemed in the SCOC, I saw in many different ways how it was corrupted. I saw spouses turned into spy's for the teacher against their spouse and marriages broken up due to a lack of trust. I saw men ignore their wives and children and spend every possible moment of free time being groupie to the teaching preacher. I saw wives murmuring against their husbands in women class and it was not discouraged. I had to sit through a bible class where a couple was being publicly questioned about having a defiled marriage bed and I was… Read more »
It is hard to even try to explain what is going on in this cult because most people cannot understand why ANYONE would put up with it. The people outside of this cult can’t believe the things they are reading on this blog but trust me it is true. So keep reading and keep encourage others to read it even if they are still attending. God will not strike anyone dead for reading and passing this on.
Yes just how far can a church go "off?" I finally came to the understanding that the tree (church) that I was a part of was unclean, from the teaching preacher on down to the lowest member. Being part of a sexualized church is not an enjoyable place to be. Uncleanness, that is being sexualized, is a lack of self control, first in the desires of the mind, then the lack of self control spreads to every other area of a persons life. The congregation I was a part of took everything to the extreme having no self control, example… Read more »
Controlling the desires of the mind starts with the decision to be single minded. Deciding to love only one God, love only one spouse, love only one career, is a great strength of mind because it allows you to reject all others and concentrate on your one love. Adulterers and fornicators are double minded, they build their relationships on sand, that is a weak foundation and when hard times come the relationships dissolve. Many men have lost not only their wives but their livelyhood due to adultery, Tiger woods the first billion dollar athlete can't so much as win a… Read more »
Controlling the desires of the mind means work. A person must decide what is important and what is unimportant and then separate the wheat from the chaff. Wheat is the good part and chaff is the dry husk surrounding the grain. The process of loosening the chaff from the grain so as to remove it is called threshing, traditionally done by milling or pounding. Separating the remaining loose chaff from the grain is called winnowing, throwing the grain up into a light wind which blows the remaining chaff away. In our lives we must decide what is important and then… Read more »
Proverbs 23:1-8 teaches us about desires and hidden obligations. Solomon teaches that when you sit to eat with a ruler consider diligently what is before thee; Job did just that in Job 2:10 when he said that if we receive good from God we must also receive the bad. The good and bad go hand in hand they are inseparable. If you accept the good feelings from the pleasures of alcohol, drugs, fornication then you will also receive the bad effects as well for they are inseparable. Addicts suffer 100 times more than any pleasure they enjoy from their lust,… Read more »
So let me get what you are saying here. You are professing the words of Solomon, a man who had 700 wives and 300 concubines, And whose father was an adulterer. I wonder if they considered women as objects? Hmmm. Didn't seem like either one of them feared having too much sex or perversions, and yet here is a Christian professing their advice to their people. Stop speaking with all your extremist words of FEAR. People can read for themselves and form their Own opinions about what they read. This is why the SCOC discourages education especially for women. They… Read more »
Solomon was indeed a wise man but yes a hypocrite, as the scripture says the hope of a hypocrite shall perish. In many of the proverbs Solomon was condemning himself but what he said is true non the less. Speaking of dogs Christ gave a warning against a particular canine called the wolf. In Matthew 7:15 Christ said beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothes but inwardly they are ravening wolves, today this is known as the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality. At first the wolf is kind but quickly turns angry (kind of like… Read more »
In Jude 1:8 we find one of the behavior characteristics of the unclean person: they despise dominion. Dominion is defined as sovereignty or control; i.e. authority. People who are unclean hate any and all types of authority and rebel against it. Women who are unclean will not be in subjection to their husbands because the husband is represent authority. The submission to authority can be feigned for a while but the unclean person will passively resist the openly rebel against it. In the mind of the unclean person they in their rebellion will develop violent fantasies and eventually they will… Read more »
Talk about sounding INSANE??? What a ramble of your own lurid interest in those who YOU consider UnClean . I did not ask about the facts of your personal life the way you apparently askeD and Inquisitioned about mine. You do not have any basis but your own imagination of what you believe and what you have deceived others to believe. You should consider the insanity you are driving others to. I wish I could do more to stop you. You injured my children and for that you will NEVER be fogiven
So Anon on November 7 at 8:04, you really believe that if a man cuts his hair short, then he will be able to control himself in other areas of his life? That outward assimilation will make a person assimilate inwardly too?This is what the Stanton group believes, and obviously you have fallen for it hook, line and sinker.Outward obedience has noting to do with the inward obedience. Carnal things do not make a person turn spiritual. You have it backwards.It starts in the "heart", and in the mind. And that's what Christ came to do,to turn the hearts of… Read more »
Also Anon on November 7: the ravening wolf isn't a description of a Jekyll and Hyde personality. A ravening wolf is always one that is ready to devour, but purposely hides it so the innocent sheep is unaware they are about to be devoured. It's planned. They try to look like sheep so that the sheep are deceived.
It's not a description of a personality. The ravening wolf really is a wolf, but is in disguise. What you are trying to do is make it sound like they have a personality disorder. And it just ain't so!
please explain your final comment "It is better to be in control and suffer without than to give in and become insane" Is this your own opinion that one must Suffer to make choices in ones life. Have you never made a mistake? It is hard to listen to your insanity and claims of Bible knowledge as though one should follow your lead.. Suffer No Thanks But do explain what you mean GP
Pretty sure Jesus was a long hair also 🙂
Personal grooming standards are used by the military to start the self control that is needed in the workplace and in combat. Controlling ones environment does work toward controlling the mind for good or evil. Once the standard of personal grooming are set then the next step in control can be administered and then the next and so on, it does work and very well as I was told you can't fight like a Marine if you don't live like a Marine and you can't think like a Christian if you don't live like a Christian. KF admits in his… Read more »
On one hand I am not going to be a yes man to oppressive leaders but on the other I am not going to respect a man fully given over to his lust. I am not going to tie my children down as was taught, I am not going to slap children in the face as was also publicly shared, and I am not going to let other church members spank or abuse my children; I live by the principles taught in the scriptures and reject those who don't (even thought they be religious.) I am not going to listen… Read more »
Well amen to you Anonymous Nov. 8th: Only a person that is clean is clear to judge as you have. And I agree with you, the words of unclean minds are hard to conceal as you see. So thank you for your post it was edifying.
What you seem to be ignoring is that many members and former members (many beyond me) have told their stories of the cult's behavior. Your focus on my behavior is the proof of the cult's obsession with finding out personal information to be used against their own members. You should not be Concerned about what I say, unless you understand that it may effect those who do not break under the cult's pressure and fear mongering.I've lived half my life already. Working on the other half now. But without 25 years of the cult's influence into my life. So when… Read more »
Anon I think your issue is that you wreak of judgement of others and your explanations are confusing. I'm not here to defend KFs position but at the same time I certainly am not going to further expound on things that the SCOC has no temperance in, such as uncleanness. Most of us from there heard about topics such as uncleanness and "the mind" over and over without temperance or balance of other things such as love, mercy, compassion, and grace. I certainly don't get on here to feel like I'm still in an SCOC class. Your last comment "please… Read more »
KF I am bald, no haircut needed. I rejected the Marine Corp life long ago. Am I sounding harsh? I was taught by the SCOC so the old patterns do come out. I don't want to be stereotyped with KF, he is the most vile poster here and should be ostracized for his obscene comments.
Let me slow down. Uncleanness, that is masturbation is a lack of self control. A little leaven leavens the whole lump (Matt 13:33) that is what you allow in one area of life will spread to rest of your life. A lack of self control is seen in excessive, and extreme behavior, the unclean person does not have an off switch. A normal person will set limits like I can afford to gamble this much money and no more, or I can only have two beers and no more so I can drive, or I will eat only until I… Read more »
Should say: "humans reach a point where they can not tell the difference between fantasy and reality"
WOW Anoymous November 9th I have to say you were paying attention that's for sure.
The sin of uncleanness is a root of bitterness that produces a tree of hatred. I never knew Merie, she died years before I was baptized but she was correct in teaching against the sin of uncleanness and the rejection of unclean people. I did not understand why she so strongly opposed uncleanness when the scripture teaches in 1 Timothy 6:10 that the love of money is the root of all evil until I studied bitter herbs. Wormwood is a bitter herb (and used by farmers to remove worms from livestock, it is the wood that removes worms thus it… Read more »
These posts bore me. We need a new article from Kevin so we can go back to several discussions from more than one or two persons on here. Where is Kevin? Otherwise you can call this blog dead as the church. Notice how not many people are involved?
I don't agree Anonymous November 10th at 9:15am I find these writings very strong to the clean mind. Good reminders of truth in this matter. Thank you Anonymous Nov. at 5:55 am for your wisdom.
Actually, Concerned, I find Anon"s post to be remarkably obsessed with sexual matters. Which speaks of an unclean mind. It amazes me how he can take a scripture and ALWAYS give it a sexual meaning.
Anon 915 and 439: I agree! It's just crazy how those posts clearly reflect a sexualized mind. A lot of the scriptures cited have nothing to do with sex yet they were used as such. Someone spent WAY too much time in the SCOC and isn't quite over it. As I've said before, many of us need to stop regurgitating what we learned from Weiss and her followers and "clean" up our minds by learning from others outside the SCOC. If those teachings were so great then just go back because you're obviously stuck in that mindset anyway.
There are five steps in self control: Planning, rules, challenges, consequences, and practice. As I go through these five stages only when I get to consequences do people object. Are people in denial as to the adverse effects of sin? Call me a maggot or unclean or reject me but the truth remains: sin corrupts, the mind first, and then the body. The are stages in corruption and some can be turned back before its to late but some have go past the point of no return. Christ said in Matthew 17:17 O faithless and perverse generation, and insult to… Read more »
The first step in the wrong direction for any person is the seeking of stimulus. First sexual stimulus is sought then when the stimulus no longer satisfies a stronger stimulus is sought and the behavior is repeated until the stimulus needed is so strong that it kills the human. People go from sexual stimulus to alcohol to drugs or any combination there of to get the desired physical pleasure but humans build a tolerance to stimulus and a constant increase in stimulus is needed to achieved the same level of pleasure. Giving in is easy resisting is difficult thus in… Read more »
Breaking Free by Rachel Jeff.
.I watched this special on Dateline how Rachel broke away from her father’s cult. If. You have On Demand I hope you watch it and share with family members who are still in the cult.
You know, I would think that someone who is so proud of their faith in Jesus, would not be afraid to say who they are to give some validity to what they are saying. For all we know these Anonymous preachers of gospel may be Russian Hackers.Now, I freely admit that I am not a believer and I do not follow the SCOC false doctrines to guide my life. I am however Sooo curious as to why these people are sooo interested in me as a non-member. I'm not asking anyone to follow me on my journey. I am not… Read more »
KF, Thanks for your details and reply. Hopefully others can learn to empathize with your situation. Some of the hardest hearts do come out of the SCOC, unfortunately. What we read about you in 2 minutes you had to live for 20 years and watch as your family deteriorated due to a sect that interferes way too much in people's lives and makes them feel like that's normal. Best wishes to you and I hope one day you can find a way to God and not religion.
Anon Nov 9th, 5:55, 12:37 and Concerned. Do you believe Merie’s church is the one and only true church? A perfect church? If you were to die right now would you inherit eternal life?
I didn't realize the rules of this blog was to NOT be a part of the Spring Valley Church of Christ. I thought Kevin Harper encouraged conversation with active members. My bad.
Concerned, I was just asking three simple questions as you answered one of them. What about the other two? I think it’s great you are on the blog. Continue to read and learn. I do not understand how someone with a good conscience can continue in Merie’s cult though after reading all of the evil and just how off this so called church is. Be careful being on the blog and don’t give away who you are unless you do not mind being withdrawn from. The SV guy has warned members of the cult about being on here. He dares… Read more »
Hey Craig. Haven't you figured out who Concerned is?. She get's a free pass to spy in on the blog trying to find those who are not obeying their command. One of her rules and her husband's rules is. NO Questions.
Craig, Your a non member as is KF, so you wouldn't spiritually understand without the Holy Spirit received at baptism. So I am not obliged to answer.
Concerned, I do agree this much with you that I am thankfully a nonmember of your cult. However, I do know more about your cult than you do as I’m not blind and deceived. Why would your cult apply withdrawal to a nonmember? Another unscriptural practice which proves you nor none of the members of Merie’s cult have the Holy Spirit. Just another false religion started by an arrogant woman. You won’t answer because you have no answer. I have 200 plus questions for any of the leaders of the cult.
I don't know your history, but you asked a question concerning it so I will venture an answer. The church would not knowingly withdraw fellowship from a non-member so there is more to the story. I would venture to say you were baptized but then made the decision your baptism wasn't recognized by God. Perhaps the church didn't agree with your judgment that you were a non-member. But then you committed sin worthy of withdraw. So according to the church you are indeed a Christian and subject to church discipline.
Concerned, yep that’s exactly what they did. Funny how they did not serve me the Lords Supper for nearly 5 months because I was a nonmember. I began to read this blog and ask questions using my name calling out leadership about some concerns as my wife is in and my money goes towards her giving. Legit questions such as how much support the two paid preachers masquerading as evangelists are paid. What happens next the May meeting and the liar of a preacher you have in Portland tells me I’m a member. Lol you all are so disingenuous it’s… Read more »
I am having a hard time sorting out your last comment, sorry. Are you or are you not a non-member? Did you or did you not embrace your baptism?
Concerned, simply put I’m a nonmember. I never in your words embraced my baptism as throughout my 20 years I had doubts. Bottom line it all traces back to unbelief before, during and after my baptism.
Concerned, no one on this blog is obligated to answer any question-not just those who declare they have the Holy Spirit. And just because you are in the "Spring Valley Church of Christ" there is no guarantee that you have the Holy Spirit still. Your "church" teaches that you can lose the Holy Spirit, even while you are still attending!Also, none of us here are referring to the group as the "Spring Valley Church of Christ", so you have just given away your identity! If you aren't one of the teachers there, you will probably be hearing all about your… Read more »
Oh, and as to "knowing" someone's "history", almost everyone in Merie's group really doesn't know any one's "history. Just on this blog, not too long ago, someone said that they know my history. And now Anon says he/she knows all kinds of things about KF.No you don't. What you really know is what others have said. Anon, have you spoken to KF and have proof that your accusations are true? I know that in my case, a lot of what has been "relayed" is false. It's very similar to the game "Telephone". The first person whispers something into the ear… Read more »
Good discussions finally opening up again and we can get off the sick discussions of sex. These discussions only prove how far off this church is….I have been in another church Not a Church of Christ for over 30 years and ever once heard so much false teachings that has been discussed here. I read this blog weekly as I have close family still attending and patiently praying and waiting for them to get out. Keep posting! Keep getting the word out!
years
Craig, considering your last post I was wondering why in the twenty years time of doubt you didn't get baptized. I know you believe in baptism. And I know the Spring Valley Churches of Christ have and will baptize those with doubt. PP was baptized three times because of doubt as well as others. Your soul is much important that this controversy.
Concerned 5:59 obviously that’s not how it works in the Portland congregation. I had doubts and brought those doubts out to the open but the were ignored as you are alright. Of course it was good yet never getting into a serious discussion tell this past January. No surprise as the Portland congregation has been leaderless for the past 19 years. I was even questioned by the hypocrite preacher about my baptism around 10 years ago. That only brought further doubts. But I continued to live the lie as a member when I was never one. Many in the Portland… Read more »
Concerned, I am concerned about your response to Craig's three questions. He asked you three very basic questions, ones that are usually addressed in "Non-member classes". 1. Is Merie's church the one and only true church?2. Is it a perfect church?3. If you were to die right now, would you inherit eternal life?The non-member classes that YOUR church hold for non-members(THOSE WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT, remember?) usually always answer those questions.Your reply-"Craig, you are a non-member, as is KF. YOU WOULDN'T SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND WITHOUT THE HOLY SPIRIT RECEIVED AT BAPTISM. SO I AM NOT OBLIGATED TO ANSWER".Number one, that answer… Read more »
Craig, really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you for your honesty and willingness to engage.
Concerned 8:31 thank you and you are welcome. I am very willing to engage I just want the truth to be known. Every comment I make is fact and truth. I have nothing to hide.
Concerned, one thing I want to make sure you understand is that the church in Portland accepted and acted upon the fact that Craig was NOT a member for 5 months. In order to be with his wife and children on Sunday he continued attending and the Portland Church did not offer him the Lord's Supper because he was deemed to be a nonmember. Then, after this year's May meeting, the Portland church decided that he IS a member and withdrew from him for his activity on this blog etc. That is just wrong, wrong, wrong. Knowing these facts, what… Read more »
As a non member Craig posed a threat to the Spring Valley Churches of Christ. He was in the awkward position of walking among them, hearing what was said and then reporting it to this blog. It was a tactical move. To declare him a Christian would then allow withdraw. He no longer could speak freely to the members about what was said on the blog so it was a protection of church peace in their judgment. Not saying I agree by the way.
Concerned 12:39 no surprise to read what you commented but let’s let the facts be known I was only temporarily walking amongst them as I knew I had to attend somewhere else because of the evil of Merie’s cult. What I did not was report things I heard there to this blog. I would share some things with my wife from this blog that I was learning about the history of Merie’s cult and some wrong understandings if scripture that was being taught there. Obviously my wife took that info to the preacher and teacher. And so here I am… Read more »
Concerned, I know you are no longer with Merie's group. And I'm so glad that you and your husband have been doing well where you are currently attending, and helping out other congregations as well! Wish you hadn't been treated the way you were by Merie's group! Best wishes!
Concerned did you witness any of the conversations concerning how they handled my situation? Do you have any more details you could share? You can contact by email if you’d like or text message. craigcusick52@gmail.com or (360) 721-2352. Thank you
Craig, my answer is simple. I have not witnessed anything of your personal experience. I just know the marching orders.
I haven't seen this brought up here. The cult really thrives in military remote towns. Members spoke of it during fellowhhip. Obviously, the cult thirives on people away from home, fear of deployment, loneliness. Craig, I wonder what the military in those towns would do if someone let them know exactly what was going on with their soldiers. It's how my door was knocked on, and many more.
Sherry, the choice for getting into military cities is easy. Military people are "rule followers". They learn not to question and just do what they are told. If you can convince them to join the cult, you will have the obeying everything with minimal questioning. They're trained to do that.
Craig, you mentioned your wife took the information you shared with her off this blog to the preacher/teacher. Did they give her any answers etc to whatever she brought up to them?
Anon 7:03 I have no idea if an answer was given or not. I was told any questions to ask the preacher. Lol. The topic is dropped in my home. I’d rather keep the peace.
KF, you think so? I wonder why they don’t use there names or at least initials. If it is SV guys wife it’s not like he’d withdraw from her. Lol
A small indication of what these Charlatans charge in dollars to decree that their meek members may have a chance to earn Everlasting Life is in my ex-wifes case was about $4,000 plus per year for her alone. Of course she was skimming those dollars from my salary unbeknownst to me until it was revealed by her in an income tax interview. So multiply that figure by the membership and these usurpers are way over-paid for doling out pain and suffering as their labor of love.Of course the unpaid decades of personal work she performs on their behalf also contributes… Read more »
I believe she earned her money by living with you KF.
I have to call baloney on KF. He posts of making hundred of thousands of dollars as an air traffic controller, then has a rental house business, and an airplane washing business and is complaining about 4000.00? If he is as filthy rich as he claims then he should put his money where his mouth is and sell one of his mansions in National City and send the money up to Kevin and his wife the concerned insider in Spudsville. Poor Kevin drives a Ford F-700 school bus to haul his family around in and they burn a lot of… Read more »
Lol. This is the funniest thing I have read in a while. Thanks for the belly laugh anon @8:38. My sides. Oh my sides.
For those who don't know National city is the armpit of San Diego and if you own property in National city it means you are a slum lord. In Nampa Idaho where Kevin lives the armpit is Garden city where people are so redneck they drive school buses instead of cars. So now you understand the satire.
Obviously, Anon 8:38 isn't up on his armpits. I think Lewiston, with its paper processing plant, has to be #1 in Idaho for that distinction. Garden City's not great, a small area of Nampa's not great. But I don't live there, so…
Haven't had a spare minute to read the backlog of comments, if there are wildly inappropriate comments, please provide a link to my email and I'll try to get to it. Between driving my family around in my F-700 bus. Or something like that. 😉
San Diego certainly has it's armpits Yes Nasty City as it is called is full of crime, drugs, hookers and generally low income or no income families living off "God's Gift" and down and out individuals. But it is also full of many enlisted military personnel who serve the USA. The other smelly armpit of San Diego is Spring Valley.Well guess where the SCOC spends most of their time preying on disadvantaged and vulnerable people. The building as they call it, where they conduct their meetings looks more like an abandoned building than any respectable business. Take a look at… Read more »
Even a clock that does not run is still correct twice a day and as much as I hate to do it I am going to have to agree with you on the point of irresponsibility, but I do not fault the individual members as much as leadership. The lack of daily maintenance was due to the lack of temperance. Temperance is a virtue that teaches not to little and not to much. In Proverbs 6:10-12 says a little sleep a little slumber so shall thy poverty come and this is true of a man who is taking to many… Read more »
There are a certain amount of people who are just plain moochers off of other people and they do it through churches with sob stories which may or may not be true. They are always the victims. Also we have enablers who encourage this behavior rather than helping others to take responsibility for their actions and learn how to take care of themselves. You will see both all around. The moochers or victims and the enablers. It sounds like your teachers and preachers know quite a bit about mooching.
I was an enabler thinking I was doing something good. Now I am a little on the slow side and it takes me a while to figure things out. What I was doing is called providing surety to others. I was the backup, the helper, the go to individual when your in need and I thought this was being a loving Christian. When I was in need however I was on my own there was no helper for the helper. I noticed that the more I helped others the less they worked, they were not the needy they were the… Read more »
Yes it is and we all need to work on boundaries. I have been scammed many times over by people in my lifetime. When someone cannot buy diapers or Tylenol for their babies but have alcohol and cell phones or cigarettes is an example. We just got a call for us to pay someone’s heating bill. Oh really! Sorry! Priorities! Saying “No” is a complete sentence. The person who told me was an addict after he got clean. Pray and think before you give!
good points, Anon(s). That is one of the downfalls of Merie's group-they REQUIRE you to help whomever calls you.I was required to babysit anytime someone called. It didn't matter what you were doing or what you may have planned, or that you just needed some time with your own family. It also didn't matter that you babysat a lot. If you said "no" just once, then you and the whole church heard about it at the next class!But it wasn't just babysitting. It was everything from helping someone to move (which usually meant doing everything, including packing, unpacking, cleaning, moving,… Read more »
I agree, many of the same lazy men I supported did not pay child support which when I found out infuriated me. How can you stand behind the pulpit and lead the people of God when you neglect the support of your own children? A drug addict learns to freeload in order to save as much money as possible for their drugs. Even after a person has stopped using the habit of freeloading will remain and you must point it out to them and demand they work and provide for their own. We had a man in Phoenix who was… Read more »
Just to make you feel a little better folks in both churches I have belonged to it is well known 20 per cent of the congregations do 80 per cent of the work and it is hard to get volunteers. As I am aging and my close friends in both churches are getting simply worn out or because of physical disabilities can no longer do many things they are finding they will have to discontinue many things such as Christmas bazaar,etc. It does not sound like you have many times of fun in this church or laughing. It seems like… Read more »
Agreed Anon! Merie's group is filled with contradictions and hypocrisy. There are so many insidious things, and you don't see them at first because you are focused on yourself. You are trying to read, study and learn about God, His word, and what you need to change in yourself.And that is what the group wants, so that you don't notice what they are really all about.For example, one of the "things" we heard over and over in the group was "Christianity starts in the home!" This was explained as meaning that we should be teaching and living it at home,… Read more »
Another insidious thing in Merie's group: the evangelists.Currently, unless things have changed radically, there are two so called evangelists. One is in Spring Valley, CA. He has been in that congregation for a long time-I was baptized in 1985, and he was living there by then! The second one is in Greenville. He is usually referred to as "the one in the South". He has been living in that same city for many years, at least 12 years, and possibly longer.My point with this is that Paul was an evangelist that we read of in the bible. Merie's group insists… Read more »
Jo, I have to chuckle too! One time I put a pan of peanut butter cookies in the oven and clean forgot about them!! They were charcoal by the time I remembered them! 🙂But just so you know, Merie's group doesn't believe in having bazaars to raise money. They believe that the ONLY way to put money into the "treasury" is by giving on the first day of the week. And, some of the congregations won't deposit a non-member's giving into the treasury either (tho they have no qualms in accepting money from the "Christian" woman whose husband is a… Read more »
This stuff above.. I honestly have to laugh out loud.. What kind of minds even think this garbage is normal.. I couldn't even think up such stupid things to make as rules.. Hahahahahahahaha
All you people who listened and believed you are like sheep! How many times have you seen an atheist open a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen? Life is so much better when you don't listen and don't believe, you should be like a goat! In you bible did they Pharisee's listen and believe? Nope and look how good they had it, power authority and palaces to live in. Hahahahaha! Now let me go and polish my pennies!
Anon Nov. 20. Where are you from Boy?
I been around. Boy is a racial slur, you do not call a grown black man "Boy" unless your racist and yes a black man can be just as racist as a white man against another black man. You don't deceive any of us Christians, you play the victim first: I lost my marriage and kids and money to the SCOC but now you are aggressive trying to dominate the blog; you are a victim-aggressor, aka Dr. Jykell Mr. Hyde, aka wolf in sheep's clothing. Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his… Read more »
Anon 6:58 well said. Thank you for sharing and the anti-cult work you are doing. Anon 8:46 are you a member of Merie’s cult.
Maybe I have misinterpreted 11/18 at 1:30 pm the individual seems to be laughing at us who have suffered and not with us, that is adding insult to injury. We believing we had found the truth put all our heart and time and resources into the group and in return were used up and then portrayed as the Judases by leadership who themselves were the betrayers. At May week many of the lessons from the leaders were to lament their suffering with a brother or sister in their home congregation who was one of "those" that is a spiritual burden… Read more »
Concerned 5:59 to add from the very beginning there was red flags of why I should’ve never given Merie’s cult a sniff of my attention. If my wife hadn’t became a member which her baptism was no good either I’d never would’ve become one. Which I wasn’t one anyways. The longer I stayed though I played the part I became increasingly concerned what I was involved in especially with the evil example that was preaching in Portland and is still the only man preaching in Portland approaching a year now. Absolute worst example of someone who claims to be a… Read more »
Sounds like perverse disputing's of men of corrupt minds. The faithless are a waste of time trying to reason with, even if you could convince them of the error of their ways they are too arrogant to admit their wrong. I have called attention to the more corrupt members of the sect and to their credit they have removed them either through withdrawal or rejection. Many "false" religions such as the catholic church I was raised in tolerated every evil imaginable amongst its members with no church discipline that I can remember. We were told that some were excommunicated from… Read more »
Anon 7:59 agree. But never in Merie’s cult.
Behaviors identify both the righteous and the wicked. The righteous learn through the scriptures to first restrain their desires then secondly to refine their desires; i.e. a person can have only one spouse this is an accepted restraint with the righteous, then they choose out the best person in the world to marry this is refining the desire. The wicked are just the opposite they have wanton desires and then debase their desires, i.e. they will live the lifestyle of fornication and then seek out the basest people to spend time around. You choose your life good or bad and… Read more »
Sherry D. It would be interesting for the military in those communities to know actually the truth about Merie’s cult. We know they want any new converts from the military to get out ASAP. We know the cults teaching on being in the military is anti-military and ant-hope of salvation. I’d love to take a contingency of military members to s nonmember class and tell them what questions to ask after class. Maybe I’ll
plant some nonmembers in there classes with loaded questions. Lol
In Proverbs 6:12-15 it tells of a wicked person and the associated behaviors. To understand the Proverbs you must apply them and a very well know wicked man would be Hitler. Hitler walked with a forward mouth (forward being contrary) he called for three different elections in 1932 until he got what he wanted. He winketh with his eyes, a wink means I like you and want to be your friend which Hitler did in his rise to power he used charm on religious leaders, business leaders, and political leaders and military leaders until he got the power he was… Read more »
Everyone needs to walk away. What would happen then? Walk away and change things! Then there would be an empty heaven? Lol.. and leave the top dog bullies with no income! Waiting for the day!
Anon I think most of us here have walked away. Unfortunately it's those we dearly love who have not, so we are hoping to expose this place for what it is: a place that is truly "off" and following a woman's teachings, Merie Weiss. Maybe one day they will see that they are not truly following Christ's example of love, mercy, and forgiveness, nor do they give any room for God's grace (which has no place or understanding there); all because one lady decided to focus instead on punishing and publicly reproving her brethren, as well as making so many… Read more »
PT Barnum had it right." There's …..born every minute"The SCOC is Circus Church, full of clowns performing for the crowds of of ticket buyers. Of course the price that SCOC cult members pay is much more than what Mr Barnum charged. And even though the circus crowds knew Mr Barnum's attractions were "Fake", they came back time and again to be entertained. Just like the wide-eyed believers in the cult's ring master, they are fooled to the point of believing the unbelievable.At least Mr Barnum left people with feelings of happiness and gave families a place to share joy.The cult… Read more »
Money is a weak foundation to build a relationship upon in fact it behaves just like sand. In good times it holds up but when trouble arises the relationship built upon money collapses as the money goes away.
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone! Today is a very special year for me as my son,grandson and great grandson will be spending Thanksgiving with us and I am so grateful. It would not be happening if they had not left left this cult. Unfortunately we still have three in the family traveling to the meeting in California. What a joy it will be when we are all together again and I know we will. I know God knows all about the situation and I trust in His timing our prayers will be answered. Enjoy the weekend!
I hope you have gotten the book "combatting cult mind control " by Steve Hassan in it he explains the practice of phobia indoctrination. One woman after having left the Moonies 12 years earlier was afraid to have children and did not know why. Steve Hassan explained to her she was taught that if you ever leave the Moonies all you children will be stillborn and thus she was afraid to have children 12 years after leaving the Moonies. Ask you family members what they were told would happen to them if the left the Merie group and then explain… Read more »
That is very sad that has happened to you. I don’t think it is happening here in the local sect but would be curious to know if it is as it may explain some things to me. What area are you from? The holidays have been strange for our family for many years since we still have many family members still in the cult.
Phoenix area. Many of the members children were physically, verbally, and spiritually abused, and that by members who were in a leadership position and not the child's parents. Children were told that children outside the SCOC go to Hell when they die, and this made them believe they might go to Hell as well. Now adults my children have a hard time accepting love from others due to prior bad experiences from leaders in the Phoenix congregation. As adults they avoid religion due to prior bad experiences as well. Trying to talk about the bible or virtues causes them to… Read more »
Why is it they have to try to control members and have meetings etc on all the holidays.. that just causes extra money to be spent.. Why don't they just leave people alone.. Because probably 80% of these people really want nothing to do with having to go to church to this garbage anyways… They just follow along like a good slave.. Just leave them alone..
Why? In the book "Malignant Pied Piers of out times a psychological study of destructive cult leaders from Rev. Jim Jones to Osama Bin Laden" (12.59 on amazon) explains the motivation. These people are trying to prove to themselves that they are not the wicked wretched despicable people they once were. Their outward show is meant to calm their inward fears to themselves. Christ spoke of these kind of people in Mathew 7:22-24 Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils and done many wonderful works? I will say unto them depart from me ye… Read more »
I don't have that kind of fear of God to not be able to be a family in my home more instead of being in a slave training camp.. all I know is thank goodness I wasn't born with this type of fear.. I can't even imagine what it would be like to live like that.. If I don't make it I don't make it LOL
What is the reason they do not celebrate holidays and have to go to church meetings?
Concerned Outsider: The group claims that since the bible doesn't tell us to celebrate the holidays, then we can't. they even take a few scriptures-out of context-to prove that God is against holidays. However, they do allow members to celebrate birthdays! Another one of their contradictions. The bible is silent on that one too, and yet it's ok. BUT, you aren't suppose to celebrate with anyone except family, as they aren't suppose to involve fellow members in those kind of carnal activities. They claim it may cause "preferring", which they teach against also. It's considered a sin to like someone… Read more »
How sad! And even sadder people actually believe and follow this and their children grow up this way. If they leave when they become adults holidays will be so foreign to them. What a way to live. Or should I say to NOT live. Reminds me so much of the Amish and how many go wild and ruin their lives when given some freedom.
Debby, they must have loosened the "rules" on birthdays because I've been to a member's kid's birthday where practically the whole church was there. I have witnessed plenty of horrible treatment of the children though. Makes me sad. I know when they are older they are going to seek out love from anyone who shows them any attention.
I have seen the same "wild" behavior in the Mormon community I was raised in. The entire community in Utah is controlled from the schools, to what songs play on the radio, to movies only being shown once that do not meet LDS church standards, to the TV shows that play, everything is under the control of the LDS church. When the young men and women leave home at eighteen to go to college or join the military they do indeed go wild like uncorking a soda bottle after it has been shook up. The teaching of virtue or Godly… Read more »
In behavior modification there are two things that increase a behavior: positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. There are two things that decrease a behavior positive punishment and negative punishment. When a child nags his mother for a sweet and the mother give in and give the child a sweet she has just positively reinforced the child's bad behavior. One of the greatest rewards you can give a person is attention; when someone is misbehaving and you pay attention to them you have just positively reinforced their bad behavior. The quickest way to stop an unwanted behavior is to not give… Read more »
Romans 14:5,6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Concerned Outsider. Concerning holidays it would be good to know if the Churches of Christ’s we’re celebrating them during Merie’s time. I’d heard that not celebrating them was unique to Merie. I can certainly be corrected on that. Bdays at least in Portland the ladies will get together after ladies class or personal work during the months when members have Bday’s. Likewise the children get together to celebrate one another’s Bdays. Portland and Tacoma for the past few years have been getting together to celebrate graduation of HS graduates for that year. Which I think all is great doing this.… Read more »
I am studying faith verse fatalism this week. Fatalism is a philosophy which states that all things are predetermined and there is nothing one can do to change the future. Fatalism is seen in a lack of effort or action in the face of adversity or difficulty. Any input in identifying and overcoming fatalism would be appreciated.
Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine that stresses an attitude of resignation in the face of some future event. It also stresses that acceptance is appropriate, rather than resistance against the inevitable. In my time in the SCOC the fatalistic attitude was encouraged not openly but subtly. I was taught from day one that all people, all other religions outside the SCOC were deceived and going to Hell; they had no hope of salvation. Then in time I was also taught that no one inside the SCOC was worthy of Heaven and this was done through the weekly condemnation of members… Read more »
How depressing to stay in a church/cult like this? Doesn’t it make you wonder why so many have health issues? Stomach aches,stomach problems,headaches,backaches? It makes my skin crawl just to read about it and having some family members still involved.
Yes, and some think their health issues are from God as trials in life. So many in this sector have health issues. When I was there my gut was on fire. The minute I left not a pain existed. No joke. 9 years of pure health I've had now and loving it. But those minds have way more fear than I'll ever begin to know and I'm very thankful for that LOL
Today's lesson was on the wanton and the chaste minds. Wanton and chaste are the end products; the fruits of a tree. People who live a restrained life become chaste people, and people who live an unrestrained life become wanton people. Without a law to follow man goes after his lust and pride with zeal, and corrupts himself more and more; with a law to follow man restrains himself, and become more and more righteous. The wanton become the baser people of society rejected because of their excess behaviors and the chaste become the respected members of a society because… Read more »
Many Christians have a love of God but what they lack is a hatred of evil. In Proverbs 8 God teaches us that if we are to personify wisdom as he does, then we are to have certain behaviors. In Pr 8:8 it say that wisdom (and those who personify wisdom) have nothing froward or perverse in their mouth. In Pr 8:13 it says the fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth. To be wise you must learn first to hate evil in yourself then you can teach others… Read more »
All the world is a reflection of the inner mind. Ask a child what shapes they see in the clouds and they will tell you they see puppies or kittens or perhaps cartoon characters; things from the life of a child. Ask an adult male they same question and they will tell you that the see guns or women may say they see hearts; what they see in the outer world is a reflection of the inner world of their minds. The Bible is also a reflection or a mirror of the mind. In my studies in Proverbs today, (and… Read more »
And no formal training. Just the same misinformed preachers teaching the wrong teachings to the followers and so it is a cycle over and over. Keeping them dumbed down until someone is finally brave enough to branch out and visit another healthy church and see what they have missed out in the love of the Lord.
Today's lesson was deep, it was on maintaining the fields of our minds. Our thoughts come from our desires, we think about what we desire. Ruminating is a type of habitual behavior where a person thinks about the same thing over and over without ever reaching a conclusion. Children who have suffered abuse ruminate about the abuse in an attempt to lessen it and thus feel safe. Adults ruminate also but not to feel safe but to feel superior or comfortable. The desire is to have a feeling and thus the thoughts that bring the feeling of superiority or the… Read more »
Concerned Outsider exactly. Unbelievable the miss information this cult feeds you from the very beginnings in nonmember classes concerning other religions. One point saying other religions do not teach on sin. Untrue. That’s not my experience with where I attend. They put down other religions constantly. Why, obviously to lift themselves up as superior to others. Far from the truth as well. Also to instill fear in members so they will not leave with the very false claim as being the one and only true church. Laughable as the title of this article rings true about Merie’s cult. The real… Read more »
An euphemism is a mild or indirect word or expression substituted for one considered to be to harsh or blunt when referring to something unpleasant or embarrassing. Take Psalms 22:21 for example when Christ said save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns; in context it is referring to Christ on the cross crying to God as he was dying and the horns are the nails in his hands and feet and the lion is Satan waiting to devour Christ. It is softer than what actually happened it is a euphemism.… Read more »
Wow.. just wow. This thread is going in so many directions, I plan on responding to something and then get taken down several other paths. I want to be a voice for those of us raised in the church and now trying to figure life out.. I'm in my 30s so the church of the 80s/90s/00s completely formed who I once was. I left my family a broken soul- not only getting beaten down (physically and spiritually) from since I can remember- but never getting the chance to develop a healthy identity SEPERATE from what it's like to live and… Read more »
Anonymous, thank you for posting this little bit of your story. I am hopeful that while you suffered much and even despised the things of God, you are now healing.I joined as an adult but I fought it for years. I remember telling my ex there was something wrong with so many kids there. Many teens were rebellious and just looked beat down and angry. I had previously gone to a regular COC and I told my ex (in telling him I didn't want my kids to end up like that) the kids there were much happier and respected their… Read more »
To clarify my statement "It was like a badge of honor that you are putting God first" I meant thru the eyes of Merie's sect. Put all works above your family, obey counsel, etc. That always comes first before your family's needs.