Stanton leadership’s lack of Biblical understanding is appalling, to say the least. This letter stating the reasons for Stanton’s “withdrawal of fellowship” (a completely misused term) should be an embarrassment to anyone who even has a cursory knowledge of scripture. I will provide it here for your perusal and comments below.
Dear Faithful Brethren,
We are deeply comforted in knowing that all the churches continue walking in the faith, unity, and peace that we have enjoyed for so many years.
This letter is sent to help answer the many inquiries received regarding the recent withdraw (sic) of our brother Joe Gautreau. While it is not customary to send out letters to the brotherhood over local church discipline, we felt it necessary to do so in this case because of the nature, frequency, and widespread affect (sic) that our brother has had on so many. Our brother had his peer group of younger preachers that he infested with his personal beliefs, along with many individual brethren, as well as whole churches that have been affected by the pernicious beliefs contrary to the doctrine and “manner of life” we hold dear especially, among our youth.
On July 27, 2021, the church in Prescott Valley, AZ. elected to withdraw its fellowship for the sins of:
Walking Disorderly: Citing I Thessalonians. 6:1-6
Causing Division by way of:
-
- Sowing seeds of discord
- Undermining Church Teaching (scriptural authorities)
Below are listed detailed statements and accusations made by Joe Gautreau about the brotherhood that will help explain the charges above.
Concerning the brotherhood being oppressive:
- “There is systemic oppression throughout the brotherhood (at least 70 % of the brotherhood is under some form of oppression)”
- “We replaced oppressors with more oppressors that teach standards and bind judgments”
- “Often the judgments imposed within the brotherhood are soft forms of oppressions
(binding one’s judgments thus creating sin for which the law does not state)” - “We replace oppression with standards and judgements, which is another form of oppression”
- “Most of the oppression has come from women in leadership roles”
- “Women ought to learn in silence” (taken out of scriptural context)
- “There is an overuse/abuse of verses such as James 4:17 and Hebrews 13:17”
- “James 4:17 is taken out of context”
- “One counselor uses oppressive tactics” (he never verified with the one whether things were true)
Charging the brotherhood of dereliction of duty
- “Due to the over focus on evangelism the brotherhood has both robbed and weakened congregations”
- “Too much time is spent studying the epistles and more time needs to be spent on the teachings of Jesus in the gospels”
Miscellaneous statements made
- “The responsibility of our generation is to correct the errors of the previous generation”
- “I’m trying to move the church in a different direction”
- “We have all cast off our faith long ago and became followers of men”
- “Let’s get into our bibles and study so we are not followers of men”
- “The current counsel on courtship is archaic”
- Romans 16:2 “We don’t know what work Phoebe did”
- Acts 18:26 “We don’t know how long she spoke or what she said”
- I Corinthians 11:29 “Eating and Drinking damnation comes from not having one’s mind upon Jesus”
Undermining of scriptural church authority
- “The brotherhood is guilty of placing sin where it is not sin and taking away personal
liberties” - “The church operates under the wrong understanding of carnality and oppression”
- “The brotherhood does not have proper understandings on oppression/carnality”
- Below describes some of the effects these statements have had to date
- Youth in certain congregations can no longer be instructed as they now demand proof for all guidance
- Public teaching against carnality has begun to slack in order to avoid being called oppressive
- Brethren are not taught as they ought, therefore sin and fleshly indulges are going unchecked
- Seeds of doubts sown have created suspicions regarding what is commonly believed within the churches
- Doubts as to whether women can be in a place of leadership
- Internal debates over whether one can teach against going to places of mass indiscretion, such as public pools, water parks etc.
- Negative opinions formed regarding the epistles (there’s too many do’s and don’ts)
- Willingness of gospel preachers to engage in sports activities together
- Teaching of the biblical principle “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you”, are now met with contentions of “you can’t prove”, as well as “you can’t bind”
It is our opinion as well as the church in Prescott Valley, that such attacks are some of the most lethal and insidious that the church has faced in many years. There can be little doubt that if this were left to continue unchallenged that the brotherhood, as we know it, would cease to exist and would indeed follow the pattern of the faithless and apathetic people we know as “the off” Church of Christ, which indeed have a name that they live and art dead!
Our Lord stated in John 17 (and still requires), that his students be as he and the Father are; ONE. Such unity requires restraint from one’s own personal opinions. This, in turn requires much effort and patience to reconcile our opinions with the prevailing consensus (based on scripture) of those that have been tested, tried, and proven. Ones that have labored in the word and doctrine and have had their senses exercised to discern both good and evil….in other words, not a novice but, rather experienced, older brethren who watch for your souls as they must give account.
It is well understood among us that the church has grown in her judgments as needs and circumstances have required. These changes have come primarily as the result of collective counsel and have been the result of our minds moving together as one people, fulfilling the command in 1 Corinthians 1:10, of which we are all familiar. This we know with men is impossible but, God has given us that gift that makes it achievable, the Holy Spirit!
We see the mechanism God has used to deal with differences in Acts 6 and especially, Acts 15. The collection of humble-minded men guided by the Holy Spirit and thus it still is today. “It will never be accomplished by rogue, youthful brethren who have found “a new and better way”!
We are also are warned of the time when “men will not endure sound doctrine but, shall heap to themselves teachers having itching ears”. Such are the sophistries of our wayward brother.
We are commanded to “preach the word, be instant in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, and exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine”. This remains vital to the preservation of that strait and narrow path commanded us by Jesus.
Let us be brought back to remembrance as Malachi had to remind the priesthood concerning Levi. “The law of truth was found in his mouth and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity and did turn many away from iniquity for the priest’s lips should keep knowledge and they should seek the law at his mouth for he is a messenger of the Lord of Hosts”.
Below are signatories to this letter as there were many faithful brethren that have been instrumental to the investigation, discovery and discipline of this matter. Many others participated in counsel (both men and women), and still many more faithful were of great importance in exposing this and still many more in silent prayer as they witnessed these evil events and went to our Father over what they were hearing and seeing.
In closing, let us all thank God that he has provided himself men and women to “stand in the gap”, that discern judgment and contend for truth, that the truth might remain with us even into the next generation.
May God continue to bless us all in our labors, sufferings and sacrifices in midst of such dangerous and uncertain times.
In Christ,
Chris Saulsberry
Michael Lehman
Stuart Russell
Gary Preman
Tom Cornforth
I won’t make an exhaustive critique of the letter right now, but here are a few things that jump out at me:
- A primary offense is listed as “Undermining Church Teaching (scriptural authorities).” Tyranny much? Any power structure in which there is no avenue for valid dissent is a tyranny over conscience. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. A free conscience has to be able to arrive at logical conclusions freely—meaning without coercion or fear. If one is constantly looking over their shoulders to see if someone else will report them to the thought police for expressing even a dissenting thought (undermining church teaching), how is that not authoritarianism? Even expressing to a friend that a particular understanding might be incorrect can be labeled as “undermining church teaching” and bring on severe social repercussions.
- The supporting “evidence” for the primary two charges are ludicrous, because there’s nothing stated here about their veracity. Are these things true? And by that, I don’t mean “Is it true that Joe Gautreau did it or said it?” but “Is it true that doing or saying it is wrong or incorrect?” For example, Joe is charged with saying “There is systemic oppression throughout the brotherhood” as evidence of his “sowing seeds of discord” or “undermining church teaching” (whatever that means). But is there systematic oppression throughout the brotherhood? That question is never even broached. What if it’s true? (And we all know that it is.) Then it’s not “sowing seeds of discord” or “undermining church teaching” but reproving grossly errant behavior in the church to keep it pure of such tyranny.
- I don’t know about you, but I’m horrified that Joe (allegedly) said “Let’s get into our bibles and study so we are not followers of men.” I mean, we wouldn’t want people to think we’re like the Bereans or something.
- Joe apparently said that in I Corinthians 11:29, “Eating and drinking damnation comes from not having one’s mind upon Jesus.” Horrors! Except that Joe just happens to be correct, and this is easily provable by any standard English dictionary and the extremely obvious context. The KJV uses the word “unworthily”—and we know that the -ly suffix means it’s an adverb, which modifies the verbs (eats and drinks). So the passage clearly is reproving the Corinthian church for the manner in which they were eating and drinking the Lord’s supper. And how, might we ask, were they eating and drinking the Lord’s supper in an unworthy manner? By not recognizing it as the body and blood of Jesus, but instead as a common meal.I have news for you, Stanton. It is not possible for any person to be worthy to eat and drink of the Lord’s supper. It’s arrogant to even think that. But it is very easy to eat and drink of it in a manner that is unworthy of Jesus’s sacrifice. That’s a huge difference, and one I’d suggest you contemplate more deeply before throwing a brother under your doctrinal bus.
Feel free to share your thoughts on the letter in the comments—and clarifications from any parties involved, if you so desire.
I would love to hear a thorough explanation of James 4.17, and whether or not Joe is wrong that this scripture is misused and abused. I know that when I was with the group, one of the so called evangelists used that scripture to prove that bible classes are required and a sin to miss (unless ur sick). I don’t know if the group still uses it to prove this or not, but if so just imagine what u can bind as law using just that scripture alone.
Hello Debby, here is my view of James 4:17. “Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth is not, to him it is sin.” This is a principle which is repeated over and over throughout the scriptures. Luke 12:47 – And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Romans 2:17-23, 29 – Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being… Read more »
What jumps out at me in this verse is that it says “to him who knows to do good and does it not, to HIM it is sin.” It does not say “to him who is told to do good by a Teacher and doesn’t do it, to HIM it is sin.” This verse is about self-conviction, not judging a brother. And as Anon above pointed out, we can’t apply it too broadly or literally, since there is (literally) no end to the good that could be done. Doing good has to be limited by our own limited opportunity, our… Read more »
Thank you Anon and Kevin. I love the points you both make, and hope and pray that ones from the group are reading this and thinking on it. My fervent hope and desire is that they could be free also, just as Christ himself said.
What amazed me is that on one of the discussions about JG, one of the “older ones” recounts a conversation he had with this novice JG… about how JG asked him his understanding of the scripture in James. And about the book in general. And this older one, again a representative at “May week “in a scoffing way talked about how he just kind of dismissed his question. And then went on to admit that he has never fully studied or read through the book of James! literally, a book that is five chapters long, a book you can read… Read more »
That is outrageous hubris. And that is the natural outcome of the feminization of the church. When women speak in classes the men are, there is no way around it, feminized. Now, Bible classes are for unity, and everyone needs to get along. Know why? Because women are emotional creatures. If they get emotionally distressed, it even interrupts their monthly cycle. They cannot handle it. This is why God didn’t want them in leadership positions. This is why Stanton has never had an honest discussion of women teachers. It’s too upsetting a topic for the older women teachers, who will… Read more »
unfortunately the whole group is run by a woman. obviously behind the face of men. I see that many withdrawals and rebukes were executed at the order of a woman. Many women who went down, ALL made the case that they simply were carrying out the orders of THIS woman. And if you look at the track record of this woman. You will see she is a woman who uses withdrawal as an act of vengeance. Because her heart is full of violence and pride, very problematic considering the amount of power this woman has. I agree… women have been… Read more »
It is an unfortunate and humiliating truth. Women have run Stanton since its inception. Women have many excellent characteristics, but leadership and speaking in public to teach in Bible classes with men present are not included in those beautiful characteristics. When women are allowed to select leaders, which only happens in emergencies in the Bible, it usually doesn’t turn out well. Women are apt to pick men who emotionally appeal to them. Women do not value intellect; they don’t value logic, reason, or a thorough understanding of history. The women don’t understand ANYTHING (I’m trying to be nice) about world… Read more »
“Listen to your teachers” Absolutely, however, never follow a teacher one step beyond their following God. We are all responsible for our own souls. The vast majority of the time it’s wise to listen to teachers, but rubber stamping everything a teacher says can be quite dangerous at times. Putting teachers on pedestals and never studying out what we are told is spiritual laziness. There are two words I’ve never heard in a Bible class in Stanton, and both are related to these two verses. Proverbs 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in… Read more »
I was rebuked by the wife of a preacher who was trying to help me with somethings in my life. She did an open class rebuke that even surprised her husband. He came to me afterward and said he didn’t know why she did that and she said to him if I want to know to come to her. She was very forceful and wound up getting withdrawn from for oppression, I believe.
It’s sad. Women teachers have been tearing down men since Merie, a behavior you never see a woman in the New Testament EVER engage in. Also, women have this tendency to want to make everyone equal. They often try to build up the weak and tear down the strong. It’s really unbalanced with women teaching because they are not fitted to help men with issues that only other men can help a man with. A man’s wife can often help with submission and honor, not denigration and degrading. What man in the New Testament was publicly rebuked by a woman?… Read more »
How important does God view the order he designed for men leading the marriage and church? Well, we are often told by many in Stanton about the exceptions to God’s rule, Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, and Anna the Prophetess, but we somehow never heard of two of the most wicked women in the Bible, Queen Athaliah and Queen Jezebel, who were the Queens with the most power in the Bible. Esther doesn’t count, as her husband was a foreigner, and even with her, she was subject to her Uncle Mordechai. So, let’s examine, shall we, how many times the word “King”… Read more »
It’s important to be very clear. It isn’t easy to resist this feminist indoctrination about women speaking in the church and to remain kind, loving, patient, and long-suffering. Like Merie, I don’t always do well in controlling my anger. But I want to be clear, she did a lot of good, and a lot of men and women were helped by her leading them to the Bible, my parents are among them. My devoted Mother is still enthralled with all Merie said and did. It’s understandable, Merie was a righteous and charismatic woman. Indeed, all the women in Stanton are… Read more »
Who controls the media that we were all exposed to from our birth?
Same people pushing feminism and the idea that women are equal to men in roles.
Funny, when you Google “women speaking in church,” we find around 90% of the links support women speaking in the church on the first few pages.
Just shows how Stanton, since Merie, is conforming to the world in this area.
We are told NOT to conform to the world.
One day I’ll find a detailed defense of women speaking in the church and dissect the specious arguments used to support this.
Can’t post the link, but this was posted by a telegram account, “The Catholic State” It’s true. It’s for the men who see Jewish treachery, but since Merie, paid by a Jew, taught non-violence and women leadership, the men are handicapped. Chorus] Your daddy hoped one day you’d grow into a man. Instead you bow to scum and throw your courage in the can. You know the pansy man is not part of God’s plan. So pick yourself up pansy, repent, be a man. [Verse] Do you have a sense of shame? Why’s your behavior oh so lame? When your… Read more »
How can a church obey God when women are in leadership positions and speaking publicly? The sad fact is it can’t. You can’t have women disobeying God’s order to be silent in the church, and spineless men supporting their rebellion, then getting emotional when the men are rebuked on their disobedience, and OBEY God. A woman’s duties in her marriage, with her husband and children, are a full-time job. Any leftover time can be devoted to teaching other women and children; billions on earth need teaching. It’s so sad that women insist on wasting everyone’s time and disabling the development… Read more »
I will always be grateful for the women in Stanton who raised me. They did a fabulous job. It seems a paradox. TD, how can you oppose women speaking in the church yet be grateful for the women who raised you? Excellent question; I’m glad you asked. God commanded women to raise their children and help with other children when they were able. This was a beautiful and blessed duty that God gave to women that all mankind ought to be grateful to them for. Additionally, some women in Stanton had children who were disabled, and these women did a… Read more »
What a beautiful post on Gab. For anyone who is on social media, Gab is the best social media out there, though it has infiltrators as well. It’s the only media that doesn’t censor criticism of small hats. This woman argued and fought with her husband constantly. This is fairly typical, and it happened often with the women in Stanton too, still does to this day, though they know to keep it secret. Not all women do this, but many do. This is the terrible effect of Jewish feminism. It subverts God’s command to women to obey their husbands and… Read more »
A historical tour guide at the original California State Capital of Benicia becomes irate over the fact that Talmudic Jews control the world. A good friend had invited me for lunch in the lovely city of Benicia. After a delightful lunch and conversation, I knew I might not be back in this area for some time, as I leave for Italy for two weeks and then move to Wyoming. I determined to visit the State Capitol in Benicia. Vallejo, Benicia, and San Jose had all been state capitols of California before the present-day Sacramento for non-Californians. As I entered, I… Read more »
A historical tour guide at the original California State Capital of Benicia becomes irate over the fact that Talmudic Jews control the world. A good friend had invited me for lunch in the lovely city of Benicia. After a delightful lunch and conversation, I knew I might not be back in this area for some time, as I leave for Italy for two weeks and then move to Wyoming. I determined to visit the State Capitol in Benicia. Vallejo, Benicia, and San Jose had all been state capitols of California before the present-day Sacramento for non-Californians. As I entered, I… Read more »
According to Stanton, Acts 2:38 means you must be baptized for the remission of your sins. [38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. I agree, and this largely has been the teaching for 2,000 years of Christian history. But, then we come across 1 Timothy 2:11-15 [11] Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. [12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man,… Read more »
Part 1, as the entire post was apparently too long, and wouldn’t post. Part 2 will come on Friday. Many teachers in Stanton use the tactic of justifying any church discipline they take, ranging from rebukes to withdrawal, by claiming they are doing this to “keep the church pure.” This was commonly cited to justify my 14-year unscriptural withdrawal, and the same playbook is being rolled out to justify my current unscriptural withdrawal for opposing women speaking in the church. It’s entirely understandable and incumbent upon leaders to keep the church pure, in the sense that those who are openly… Read more »
There are far bigger issues that need to be addressed other than women in Stanton rebelling against God’s commands for them for 50 years. However, danger rarely can be confronted when wives refuse to obey their husbands, and when defiant and deceived women INSIST on speaking in churches. Dear women in Stanton, there is NOTHING God Wants to hear from you when men are present in formal church gatherings, other than your prayer requests and songs. Your greatest attribute to get yourself married is your beauty, and you had little to do with that, it was a gift from God… Read more »
Did you know Jews were instrumental in the popularity of comic books and are responsible for Batman, Superman, Captain America, MAD magazine, and many more comics?
Every…..Single…..Time
It’s no cohencidence.
Part 2 won’t post, so will take pictures. There are four, so four posts will be necessary.
Part 2/4.
Parts 3 & 4 Stanton is straining at the gnats of sexual sins that EVERY MAN IN STANTON HAS COMMITTED AT SOME POINT IN HIS LIFE, LIKELY ENOUGH, while swallowing the camels of women speaking in the church and illegal immigration. Then, while Stanton screams bloody murder about sexual sin, they at the same time deny many men the remedy that God created for sexual sin. 1 Corinthians 7 [1] Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. [2] Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his… Read more »
From Akzed on Gab. Profound comment. “True, it’s not about knowledge though but intelligence. The smarter someone is, the more doubt he experiences, according to Dunning-Kreuger, because of his awareness of what he doesn’t know. He perceives nuances in things that others don’t, some of which raise questions. Those who don’t perceive these same nuances, relationships, or whatever, are unaware of the unanswered questions that plague a smarter guy. The less intelligent guy, let’s just say “the dummy,” assumes that his limited understanding is the limit of the issue at hand. He has thought things through as far as he… Read more »
Any time you disagree with the leadership in Stanton, you will hear the furious rebukes about “Humble yourselves and receive instruction.” Should a man heed and obey those who God has placed over him? Yes, a thousand times. Should a woman obey her husband? Absolutely. Should a man obey any command not from God from a man in the church? I see few good reasons for him to do so. So many wrong teachings in Stanton were allowed to continue because no one stood up to oppose it, and everyone wanted to conform. We have heard many times, and rightly… Read more »
Part 1, as once again the website won’t post the complete comment. Any time you disagree with the leadership in Stanton, you will hear the furious rebukes about “Humble yourselves and receive instruction.” Should a man heed and obey those who God has placed over him? Yes, a thousand times. Should a woman obey her husband? Absolutely. Should a man obey any command not from God from a man in the church? I see few good reasons for him to do so. So many wrong teachings in Stanton were allowed to continue because no one stood up to oppose it,… Read more »
Part 1 Any time you disagree with the leadership in Stanton, you will hear the furious rebukes about “Humble yourselves and receive instruction.” Should a man heed and obey those who God has placed over him? Yes, a thousand times. Should a woman obey her husband? Absolutely. Should a man obey any command not from God from a man in the church? I see few good reasons for him to do so. So many wrong teachings in Stanton were allowed to continue because no one stood up to oppose it, and everyone wanted to conform. We have heard many times,… Read more »
Part 2 You know the vast majority of the women in Stanton, especially the ones with college degrees, and the ones who revere Merie, and often the single women, who were never properly taught, will revolt and rebel at the idea that they are to be silent in the church. Because the schools, television, social media, and their similarly indoctrinated friends and family have been brainwashed by Jewish feminism since they were born. Their indoctrinated feelings power them; if you don’t think those are powerful, they really are. I’ve been withdrawn from for 15+ years, unscripturally, because of indoctrinated feelings.… Read more »
Part 3 And when the women are allowed to speak in church, they now weaken and emasculate every man in the church. Because a righteous man CANNOT AND WILL NOT respect a man who is controlled by his wife and other women in the church. You aren’t fit for leadership. God doesn’t lead you; fickle women’s feelings weakly control you. And yet, the men who surrender to women’s whims HAVE BEEN THE LEADERS IN STANTON FOR IT’S ENTIRE HISTORY!!!! It’s absurd to hear men and women who refuse to obey God when he says that women are to stay silent… Read more »
Part 4 Let us always remember what Solomon said about brawling and contentious women in Proverbs 21. He is talking about every woman who raises her hand and shares in a Bible class in Stanton. Thank you to those who have never done this and to those who have repented and never do it anymore. vs. 9 It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman in a wide house. Solomon is saying to stay away from brawling women, and that applies to every woman teacher and every woman who raises her hand… Read more »
Part 5, and final The women have been trained that their opinions, carefully cultivated by propaganda, are to be always respected or that’s some kind of “abuse,” which is one of the most subjective words ever invented and which is commonly used by millions of women today when they don’t get their way. It’s pathetic how men contort themselves into pretzels to try not to offend women’s fickle feelings and do all they can to avoid being thought of as “abusive” by women who abuse God’s word constantly and disobey his command to stay silent in the church. In conclusion,… Read more »
Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman. Sadly, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. It’s sad that 20% of the women in Stanton who insist on speaking in public have to ruin it for the 80% of women who faithfully obey God and stay quiet in the church during classes and business. But, the 20% virtually rule Stanton. They have from the very beginning. Men don’t want to argue with them, so who will compel them to obey God and stay quiet in the church? No one, until… Read more »
Comment on Gab, over 11,000 views. “Consider the thousands of conflicts between men because wives have been asserting their mistaken ideas publicly, and when another man corrects them, the wife goes to her husband for support. He’s expected to support her no matter what, or he loses face and respect from her. Now, we have a conflict that would have been averted if the woman had remained silent and kept her opinions to herself. Even if a woman is correct, isn’t it backward for a man to fight for opinions his wife leads with? If he’s going to fight, shouldn’t… Read more »
Merie taught me a lot of excellent things. But, she never taught the primary duty of women, to be a Keeper at Home. Merie never learned to be a Keeper at home herself. The paid preacher system was far less of a problem than domineering women like Merie, berating men publicly and destroying God’s order for marriage, the church, and the nation. I prefer to speak only well of those no longer with us. Still, unfortunately, the current feminism in Stanton, where dozens of women insist on speaking publicly in formal gatherings with men present, cannot be extirpated unless the… Read more »
In 1920, due to Jewish intrigues, women were given the right to vote, which was a disaster for them and America. It was part of a Jewish socialist agenda, which says a woman is a unit of society, NOT the family. There are very close parallels between two acts of rebellion against God by women, women voting and women speaking in the churches. Women likely wouldn’t be speaking in churches if they had not first been conditioned by being given the right to vote that their individual opinion takes precedence over God’s stated order for them in the nation and… Read more »
Instead of being a teacher in Bible classes and teaching men, why don’t women teachers in Stanton teach their own children, teach other women under Godly men’s supervision, and teach children’s classes?
Maybe men 100 years ago matured much faster because they didn’t have to compete with women for positions of responsibility and they didn’t have to argue with their wives thousands of hours over simply leading their homes.
It’s sad that not a single woman in Stanton was ever taught God’s order, that she is to remain quiet in the church, and to prioritize her husband, children, and home.
They can sing and ask prayer requests, and, under instruction of Godly men, they can teach children’s classes and women’s classes. There is enough work there for more than a lifetime for the most righteous of women.
How can the young women ever become Godly women when no one in God’s church ever taught them how?
“How dreadful when right judge judges wrong” wrote Sophocles in his splendid and profound play, “Antigone.” Why? Because of all humans, it is hardest to correct a good person commonly. It’s easy to correct and denounce a bad person, as they are often widely known to be bad. But, it’s much more difficult with a good person, as a good person has many virtuous qualities. They are often honest, generous, caring, kind, compassionate, forgiving, chaste, wise, patient, faithful, and honorable. How do you correct a person like that? It’s extraordinarily difficult, and, as I’ve experienced, you can be privileged with… Read more »
can I ask you a question truth defender…. you speak soo much about how merie Weiss was sooo contrary and rebellious to the will and order of God for women in his kingdom, yet will call her righteous at the same time. I do believe as you have stated that she set this culture in the Stanton COC and therefore established a very heretical and unbiblical system. So… how do you conclude that she right in the sight of God? I have just been curious for a while having seen your perspective and posts
Thank you for your question. It puzzles me as well. How can a woman who was so good in so many areas be bad when it comes to women speaking publicly? There has been so much damage caused to marriages and to the church from women’s emotional feelings being allowed to guide and direct marriages and the church. But, we see in Scripture many who erred seriously in life yet died righteous. Abraham lying twice, Moses murdering an Egyptian, David’s adultery and murder, Paul putting Christians to death. It’s not like Merie was a wicked woman. She was a very… Read more »
I have a hard time with this because I feel the examples you gave of righteous individuals that fell into sinful behavior all brought forth evidence of repentance. Meri died in her unbiblical state. And stood firm in her position. I think the measure of righteousness goes beyond avoiding profanity, marital sex, and being studious of the word. That perfectly describes the Pharisee and we know where they stood before God.
It is difficult to understand. A woman who was a saint in so many areas, yet, who rebelled against God’s order for women. Kind of similar to one of the most famous women from early America, Anne Hutchinson, who was kicked out of many churches for trying to speak publicly. There is nothing new under the sun. I believe what we were taught about the Pharisees was in error. They were following their Talmud, their oral tradition, when Christ walked the earth, and 90% of Jews do that today as well. You cannot find the Talmud in schools and libraries,… Read more »
Very interesting. I’m reading the 50 volume set of the Harvard Classics, which is better than any college education, and which can be obtained for a fraction of the price, (it includes parts of the Bible) and I come across an insightful passage. This collection, published in the early twentieth century, does a remarkable job of combining some of man’s greatest works of literature, poetry, adventure, exploration, and more in a five foot shelf of knowledge. In volume 9, “Letters and Treatises of Cicero and Pliny” I came across Pliny’s letter to the emperor Trajan, where he talks about putting… Read more »
On Election Day, let it be noted that women being allowed to vote and speak in the churches has been a disaster for America, and that both ideas didn’t exist in America just 124 years ago. Both parties are controlled, so America isn’t voting her way out of this disaster. And, let’s explore the underlying building block of society, marriage, and how men are routinely undermined. Here is a wonderful post by Lori Alexander. This is a comment given by Trey on my post Living Like An Abigail: I hear so many Christian wives these days talking about how bad… Read more »
Another fabulous article by Lori Alexander. Godly women are QUIET women. One paragraph jumps out. “ How are godly women to behave in the churches? “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:11,12) “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at… Read more »
“Our whole country stinks of Money, of desire for money and for what money can buy. We even rate the size and worth of a man by the amount of his income. To get money, there are few of us left who would not, in one way or another, sell their integrity and their souls.”
From William Gayley Simpson’s “Which Way Western Man”
Merie taught women correctly, to stay home, have a lot of children, don’t have televisions in your home, be a dutiful wife. But, she also taught them, by her example, to rebel against God’s order and to speak in the church, and even worse, to teach and rebuke men. It’s one of the most awkward sights to watch a woman teaching in a Bible Class as she’s sitting next to her husband. It’s even more awkward when her husband is a preacher, and it’s the absolute worst when she’s emasculating an evangelist. How can a grown man respect a man… Read more »
God had very good reasons for commanding women to remain silent in the church. From Robert Briffault’s book, “The Mothers” “Civilisation, as it presents itself in humanity’s power of control over nature and over its own social conditions in the higher forms of knowledge and of culture, in the gradual elimination of errors and abuses, has developed within a relatively short period of time. Those achievements have been brought about chiefly, if not exclusively, through the operation of man’s rational faculty. . . That process which has raised civilized humanity above savagery is fundamentally an intellectual process. It has been… Read more »
One of the reasons why women speaking in Bible Classes is such a great evil is because the Bible Classes become gigantic Safe Spaces for women’s deceived feelings. So if you say something that the women have been trained to reject by Schools, media, and their families and friends, you will be shut down, and if you persist, they will find a reason to withdraw from you, no matter how true what you say is. “Sowing seeds of discord” and “Walking disorderly” are two common reasons used to get rid of men who tell unpopular truths. You can’t call yourself… Read more »
Yes, and do the women stay silent in the churces? Do they only teach women’s classes and children’s classes under the supervision of righteous men?
No, they never have in the history of Stanton.
How about women focus on obeying God’s commands for them, especially the women teachers, who, because they disobey God, are turned into harridans and termagants.
Stanton is full of feminism. Every woman who speaks in church besides prayers and song requests and who teaches Bible classes is a feminist. And the sad fact is the feminists have complete control of the men and have feminized the men. Watch the men in Stanton. Watch their mannerisms. They are often witty, funny, charming, are rarely seen with a sad countenance, and have the temperament, many do, of women. In Stanton, you must act like a woman to advance as a man. So logic, critical thinking, reasoning, careful deliberation, these are not strong points of the men in… Read more »
I find it fascinating that women are required to be in subjection to their husbands, which the church agrees with, but then, though marriage and the submission of a wife to a husband is the basic building block of the church, suddenly, abracadabra, a woman can come to church, AND TEACH HER HUSBAND AND OTHER WOMEN’S HUSBANDS!!! That seems perfectly reasonable! Also, it appears Stanton is adding to the Bible. Titus 2:3-5 [3] The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; [4] That they… Read more »
Advocate for the truth , excellent analysis; I would like to add something on a verse that they used to defend the authority of the women in the church because that is the reality they have congregations where the woman have the last word and the church needs to move in the way that she points . That verse is Acts18:24-28 (Aquila and Priscilla) they misuse this verse adding that Priscilla is teaching , well that scripture show is that They we’re teaching a Jew the way of God more perfectly … yes somehow she is teaching but she is… Read more »
Excellent points, advocate. Even as I attended Merie’s church I was very uncomfortable with the women teachers. I excused it in my mind but never was I 100% ok with it and especially not when a woman very obviously rebuked a man in the room. I just don’t understand how, with their own teachings of women keeping silent, they were allowed to usurp the authority of men. Again, thanks for detailing these points so well.
Kevin, great analysis of the letter. That letter is very revealing in a myraid of ways. It saddens me greatly when I think of all the lives and families these leaders have ruined. The apex of the leaderships collective aim is preeminence in perpetuity. In other words, the leaders can’t have honest discussions about issues because that’s threatening to their immortal legacies. I can’t read minds, but it appears that Joe said what many members think. He wasn’t withdrawn from and besmirched for what he did, but moreover, they wanted to use him as an example so all will submit.… Read more »
Definitely. One of my next articles will be on the political nature of many of Stanton’s actions. Politics is about power and control, not truth-seeking. A truth-seeker doesn’t care about how much power or influence they have, or their congregation has. That is so obviously “carnal” (to use a Stanton buzzword). The truth is the truth, regardless of what it means to someone’s power, influence, or legacy.
Edit: Here’s that article on church politics.
It is a beautiful night here in San Antonio with 73 degrees and party cloudy skies this Thursday November 10, 2022. It is a much bigger city than I imagined. I have found oppression in many areas of life and not just in religion. One must develop skills to deal with bullies by setting firm boundaries with them and not to become a bully oneself. Bullies never go away as soon as one is exposed and removed another one rises up to take their place. Daniel the prophet in the old testament certainly lived under a murderous bully the king… Read more »
The loss of Joe and his family to this sick, judgmental gang of Pharisees will be nothing less than a total blessing to some fortunate “off” church who will consider themselves lucky to gain a member and his family, who have demonstrated great character, knowledge and courage. I am thankful for this blog for exposing this cult for what it really is, a group of bullies, puffed up by their alleged knowledge of the scriptures, who use guilt and fear to control their members and destroy families. Their arrogance in declaring the true Church of Christ the “off church” is… Read more »
100%. Unbalanced and unhinged. Great post!
The “off churches” do not readily accept members from this group of churches of Christ. When the federal employee sought membership in an off church they called Kevin Harper first for his opinion before allowing him to attend. The “off church” is careful about who they allow in, some are rejected outright.
It is not true that mainline churches of Christ won’t readily accept members from the Stanton sect. While I did get a call, it was more about trying to understand the religious background of the Stanton sect more than anything else. I have never heard of a mainline church NOT accepting anyone who is a baptized believer into their congregation. This brings up an important point. You should always question the propaganda you’ve been told about the “religious world” or the “off churches.” You see the extent they’ll go to to slander a good man in this letter for essentially… Read more »
Agreed. I placed membership at a Houston Church of Christ in the 1980s and in no way was I turned away or my past checked because I had been a member at Stanton. It was quite the opposite.
Not fun having your business posted on the internet, huh?
We All Make Mistakes, you’re correct. I tried to delete but was unable too. I have no clue who you are. But if you are apart of leadership my thought is you are cowardly clowns and I’ll leave it at that.
Craig, do you know what’s worse than being a clown? A fool. You can delete my comment and you can cry on this blog for eternity about things that won’t change but I hope one day you realize that Kevin will pass on and you will have no leader. You should find God. A word of advice, find some new friends. Clearly these ones are miserable and just want to keep you as miserable company. They don’t want you to get help or else they’d guide you to a church or therapy that can help you. Or maybe they can’t… Read more »
Thank you for calling yourself out. You’re correct. Fool works better than the clowns they are. Sorry don’t need your opinion. I have a great life with many great friends and family. No crying here. This is all simple entertainment for me. I just recently began making comments again.
Do you want a gold star?
Truth isn’t determined by feelings, though truth being determined by feelings is a common fallacy taught. If you obey them, you are happy, if you disobey, you are “miserable”. What was so tragic, is many people who were oppressed and unjustly punished, being separated from family and friends, became just like any other human when mistreated, sad. Then, these same people had to turn around and face ridicule for being ‘miserable’. Does any human in history become joyful and happy when they are unjustly treated in public, and separated from their closest family and friends? Does anyone think Joseph was… Read more »
Hey Craig, how have you been. I haven’t found a right CoC here yet, but am still studying, praying every day, working on my salvation through repentance, etc. I am trying to get through the book of Hebrews.
Hi Lynn, I’m doing great!! Thank you very much. Life has never been better since I stopped attending functions of Merie’s cult. Kicking myself for 20 wasted years being around such a corrupt people filled with hypocrites. Hope all is well with you.
Yet they all are members of Merie’s cult who was withdrawn from. Stupidity at its finest.
The truth about 9/11 The Truth About September 11, 2001 9/11 was orchestrated for many reasons, To collect the billions in insurance money from a policy taken out 2 months before, To steal the billions in gold that were stored under the tower, To usher in the Patriot Act to seize control of America and erode the constitution, To seize control of the oil in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Middle East, and To destroy Israel’s enemies in the Middle East, among other things. The Insurance Only two months before the attacks, the towers were bought by Larry Silverstein, and he… Read more »
For kicks… decided to listen to the talks again… wow! how can one truly justify this groups position??? First…. ABSOLUTELY No true biblical defending of women’s position… just regurgitating of what has always been taught with a condescending questioning of those who dare challenge the UNBIBLICAL position women are given in the group, then strong admonitions to those who try to continue question it going forward. I pray for the soul of the one who has gone unto eternity. The self professed denier of truth, the one who was willing to stand in heresy for the sake of unity. how… Read more »