Uncategorized Archives » Page 8 of 8

13 August

Inaction leads to a seared conscience

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:24-06:00August 13th, 2013|Uncategorized|12 Comments

A truth from Scripture that I recall being taught from my earliest memories is how the conscience can so easily be seared with a hot iron and become numb to repeated violations. Sadly, this is happening to members of the group who repeatedly witness wrong things and stay silent out of fear: People are rebuked publicly without mercy, and without even having been approached privately first. Non-member teens are called out publicly for their misdeeds, humiliating them and their parents, and usurping parental authority. Entire Bible class sessions can be taken up with unmerciful public rebuking, with little or no actual study of the Bible. Gossip and evil surmising. Retribution, "witch hunts," and intimidation used against those who try to speak out. Truth doesn't need to [...]

12 August

Rules for marital sex

By Kevin|2019-09-26T10:46:06-06:00August 12th, 2013|Uncategorized|118 Comments

This is a subject I intend to handle with as much tact as possible, but I make no apology for treating the subject boldly as well as 100% scripturally. It is important to speak the truth on this, because the oppressive reach of church teaching extends even into the sacred realm of the marriage bed, which Paul declares to be "undefiled." The church leaves no sacred cows, so unfortunately, neither can we. I believe sex within marriage to be a gift of God, and something to be enjoyed without guilt or shame. The teachings of the church on sex seem to start with the premise that it is dirty and shameful; hence rules such as abstaining on Saturday night. In one instance, a woman was [...]

Speaking the truth in love
Gallery
Speaking the truth in love

Uncategorized

8 August

Speaking the truth in love

By Kevin|2019-09-27T14:39:09-06:00August 8th, 2013|Uncategorized|0 Comments

The challenge in any situation where brothers disagree with one another is to be able to speak the truth boldly, but in a loving manner so that the other party can actually hear your words. I'm not going to say I've been entirely successful at that here, but that's been my sincere goal. Some posts may have accomplished that more successfully than others. So how do we do this in real life? How do we discuss disagreements about weighty matters in a way that both sides can still feel the love? Obviously, it's much easier said than done. A tip that has helped me--although I still fail at it--is to assume good motives. Part of the reason why debates are frequently ineffective at changing hearts [...]

7 August

When are rules not rules?

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:19-06:00August 7th, 2013|Uncategorized|141 Comments

It's hard to avoid talking in circles when discussing doctrines with members of the church, simply because words don't mean what we would expect them to mean. Thus, the conversation goes in circles, because the meaning of words keeps shifting. A case in point was a recent conversation about rules. It was denied emphatically that the church had extra-Biblical rules. I asked if church members were allowed to have Facebook accounts. There was a long pause. "There is no rule against it, but it's taught against." So how exactly does that work? Does the word "rule" mean something different to them than to me? If I, as a person of authority in my household, instruct my kids not to have a Facebook account, that's a [...]

5 August

Unbiblical teaching against wine

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:18-06:00August 5th, 2013|Uncategorized|9 Comments

The church routinely substitutes its own human reasoning in place of what the Bible actually says, and this couldn't be more the case than with the teaching against wine. Drinking wine continues to be taught against, apparently, although it is now OK to cook with alcohol if someone else buys it for you. With that, let's put aside the traditions of men and take a look at what the Bible really says about alcohol. If you're a Christian, you may be surprised to know that the Bible doesn't make a blanket condemnation of alcohol. Instead, the Bible's teaching on it is consistently one of moderation, not prohibition. Both the Old and New Testaments actually come right out and authorize drinking alcoholic drinks. This passage from the [...]

Gossip, evil surmising, and slander
Gallery
Gossip, evil surmising, and slander

Uncategorized

5 August

Gossip, evil surmising, and slander

By Kevin|2019-09-26T09:05:24-06:00August 5th, 2013|Uncategorized|7 Comments

Word of this blog and a separate private Facebook page have apparently spread like wildfire and made its way into sermons, Bible classes, and face to face confrontations, with accusations being thrown around left and right about who they think is instigating it all. What's sad is how wildly false the accusations have been. Tongues have been wagging about the blog with all sorts of false assumptions, and it seems to me like the dictionary definition of gossip, evil surmising, and slander. I've personally heard false accusations against three or four different people in the last couple of weeks, myself included. This culture of gossip (under the guise of keeping the church pure, because we have to have a good pretense for it, after all) [...]

4 August

Why no elders?

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:15-06:00August 4th, 2013|Uncategorized|94 Comments

In over 45 years of existence, this sect still has no Biblical eldership in place. Why is that? Answer: Because a core group of people have led the movement from the earliest days of the church, and Biblical leadership would threaten that power structure. A dynamic of largely female leadership was in place from its inception as a division from the mainstream churches when Merie was withdrawn from. (You didn't know that Merie was withdrawn from by East San Diego Church of Christ in 1958? Oops, they conveniently leave that out of their history.) Merie clearly preached, and I sat through many a sermon of hers. Of course, they didn't call them that. The difference was only one of semantics. Because she sat while preaching, [...]

Fear and intimidation tactics
Gallery
Fear and intimidation tactics

Uncategorized

4 August

Fear and intimidation tactics

By Kevin|2022-10-28T04:54:27-06:00August 4th, 2013|Uncategorized|237 Comments

1 John 4:18 - There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. Since starting this blog, I have been sent thank you notes from members, former members, and children of members. Those still connected to the group almost always ask for anonymity to prevent retribution in the form of public rebukes, withdrawals, or "marking and avoiding" of themselves or family members. Several have come to me with tangible fear that if the church leaders found out they were talking to me, there would be severe consequences. Others have told of confirmed instances of gossip and slander that have been spread about them. Some tell [...]

3 August

One error is all you need

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:12-06:00August 3rd, 2013|Uncategorized|6 Comments

Growing up in this church, it was common to hear Merie say that if you could point out one error in the Bible, she'd eat every page. This was a very persuasive point for those who had never considered the Bible's authenticity. The same reasoning applies to Jesus...he cannot have been simply a "good man" in history as many people claim. If we find one false claim he made, he was a liar, not a good man. So it is with the church's claim to be the One True Church. When you make such a claim, you better have the facts to back it up. Since their claim is that all other Christian churches are false because they all have false (erroneous) doctrines (a tried [...]

1 August

Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:07-06:00August 1st, 2013|Uncategorized|6 Comments

One of the biggest problems with the sect is the extremes they've gone to in "teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (in good old King James English). There have been no areas of life untouched by the rules and regulations of fallible men in the 40+ years of existence of this sect, from whether you can have a glass of wine with your dinner, to whether you can go on a family vacation, what you can do on that vacation, and who you can enjoy your recreation with. The rules (a.k.a. judgments) of the church have reached all the way into the sacred bedroom of a married couple, regulating such things as sexual positions (face to face), distance apart (6 to 12 inches), how [...]

1 August

Rules on confession

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:06-06:00August 1st, 2013|Uncategorized|3 Comments

There are many rules on confession. To set the stage for this post, you have to understand first their concept that no sin can be forgiven unless there is a prescribed set of steps followed so God can remove that sin from our soul. So the Biblical understanding of sin and forgiveness is what is skewed, and therefore their concept of confession suffers. Here are some rules of the church for confession: If you sinned privately, you must confess it privately to the person who is aware of your sin. If you sinned publicly, you must stand up (literally) and make a public confession at church. Sometimes church leaders will be hesitant to come right out and say that breaking one of the church's rules [...]

1 August

Rules on recreation

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:04-06:00August 1st, 2013|Uncategorized|9 Comments

Continuing a series of posts on rules of the church, this list deals with recreation. When I was growing up, it was regularly taught that men's ball games (baseball, football, golf) were ridiculous wastes of time for a Christian. Never mind the fellowship and camaraderie that comes from sports. A group of us at one of my old church families played volleyball once a month and we formed some great bonds with each other during those years that continue to this day. However, like good Pharisees, sports, for the most part, are decreed sinful or otherwise inappropriate for a Christian. One fallacious line of reasoning has always been "Can you imagine <insert preacher's name here> playing basketball?" (Or wearing blue jeans...yes, I've even heard that [...]

1 August

Truth shouldn’t be afraid of a lie

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:03-06:00August 1st, 2013|Uncategorized|9 Comments

The idea that truth doesn't need to be afraid of a lie was a staple teaching growing up in this group. However, it was only applied in challenging other people from other churches, denominations, or religions. It was never applied to yourself. After all, it was just assumed that you had the truth and others did not. The church's fear of having its doctrines and practices exposed for all the world to see manifests itself in several ways. When faced with a desire for open dialogue, they retreat to silence, secrecy, and scare tactics rather than face facts head on. There is clearly an attempt to control the flow of information that is accessible to the flock and their family members. Facebook accounts are not [...]

1 August

Rules for traveling

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:01-06:00August 1st, 2013|Uncategorized|26 Comments

There is no area of life that is unregulated by the church. There are rules (a.k.a. "judgments") for everything, and when a rule doesn't immediately come to mind, they are encouraged to call a Teacher for "counsel." Once the question makes it through a discussion at a May Meeting, the individual congregations fall into line with this year's latest rules. Here are some of the rules for traveling: You mustn't worship in another congregation unless you are visiting family. If you are traveling for something work related or some other reason you must go back home for worship. You can also worship in another congregation if you are courting someone. You must keep the schedule of the church in the city you are in if [...]

30 July

Rules of attire

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:08:00-06:00July 30th, 2013|Uncategorized|170 Comments

With this post, I'll begin a series on various rules of men that have been created by this church. Some may have changed here and there over time, and some may not have been enforced equally across all congregations. But every one of these has been verified by former members. Keep in mind that the point here is not to argue the validity of the reasoning behind any of these rules, but to argue that the church composed of fallible humans should not be making rules like these at all. "They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules." Mt 15:19 (NIV) "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Mt 15:19 (KJV) Dresses for women required on [...]

29 July

Changing doctrines

By Kevin|2019-04-30T09:53:03-06:00July 29th, 2013|Uncategorized|104 Comments

One of the staple teachings I had growing up in the Stanton Church of Christ was the idea that truth never changes. Therefore, if any church had ever changed their doctrines, you could be assured it was not the True Church, because 1 Tim 3:15 says the True Church is the pillar and the ground of the unchanging truth. The only problem is that the church has most definitely changed its doctrines over the years. That's the purpose of the May Meetings, in fact...to discuss doctrine and reach conclusions for the sake of "unity." Invariably, each May Meeting creates a flurry of excitement around all the "new understandings" of scripture "brought back" from the meeting. These "church councils," which are nothing more than the equivalent [...]

10 July

What is a sect?

By Kevin|2019-04-11T02:07:55-06:00July 10th, 2013|Uncategorized|18 Comments

Members of the Stanton Churches of Christ will not like my use of the term "sect," and I assure you, it's not meant to be hurtful or derogatory. Here is the definition: a dissenting or schismatic religious body; especially : one regarded as extreme or hereticala religious denomination a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader party faction I think any fair-minded person would have to agree that all of these definitions apply. They were founded based on Merie Weiss's dissenting views from the mainstream Churches of Christ in the late 60's and early 70's. As such they became a schism when she broke away and formed her own distinctive church body or "fellowship." They adhere to a distinctive set of doctrines [...]

What is legalism?
Gallery
What is legalism?

Uncategorized

10 July

What is legalism?

By Kevin|2019-06-17T07:15:51-06:00July 10th, 2013|Uncategorized|29 Comments

Legalism is a term that gets thrown around a lot, and it's generally referring to an approach to the Bible that is law-centric rather than grace- or love-centric. A legalistic theology (or more accurately, hermeneutic), does not necessarily preclude the idea of grace; but generally pushes love and grace to a very minor role in our approach to God, and establishes our compliance with God's laws as the primary means of approaching him. The Pharisees of Jesus' time were a legalistic sect. They measured their own closeness to God by their adherence to the Law, and judged harshly those who did not measure up to their own standards of law-keeping. Of course, the legalist would not describe himself that way. He thinks that his standard [...]

Load More Posts

"This needed to be said Kevin, thank you. I believe you are getting to heart of the problem in the church. Instead of a Christian being allowed to exercise their own conscience, the conscience of a few people living in South Carolina and California is forced upon the entire brotherhood." ~Anonymous

"Great blog, Kevin. I'm originally from Stanton (I remember you being a young boy there). I Spent almost twenty years in the church seeing many of the things you speak about but keeping them in the back of my mind, and doubting my own feelings that something wasn't right.

"This constant gossiping was so confusing because it was OK for teachers to talk about people, but no one else to even question actions of a teacher. Being outside of that influence and away from the constant intimidation, it is so much more clear. There was no love or understanding. I'm sure most, except for the leaders, know something is wrong if they would just be honest with themselves. I regret so much putting my children through this more than I regret putting myself through it.

"I'm just glad I left. No need for being bitter toward anyone because it was my choice to be there and stay there. Keep up the good work." ~Loraine Forshee

I have read every word of this blog… I spent many hours/days reading… Feeling so sick inside… I felt so grateful to find this blog." ~Anonymous

"I left the group because I realized that what the group taught and what God teaches were often-not always-vastly different. I had to make a choice; stay out of fear, obligation, because of relationships, or leave so I could continue to follow Christ. I left. You know, one thing I heard A LOT while in the group is that “fallen away ones” are always longing to come back into the group.” At the time I believed it, but I just haven’t found it to be true! If it were, there would be plenty of people flocking back, and it isn’t happening. I have been in contact with quite a few who have left, and not one of us has thoughts about going back. Ever." ~Debby Stevens

"What’s ironic is that we point these things out to them only for them to ignore, dismiss and scoff at the blog both publicly in talks or sermons, and among themselves in secret. For you leaders and members of the SCOC who still read this blog, it’s one thing to dismiss the dissenters, but when you have people in your own ranks parroting the SAME EXACT PROBLEMS we talk about here (some of whom don’t even read the blog yet they see the same things we do), it may be time to consider your ways instead of having “unity” (conformity) meetings trying to ignore it." ~Advocate for Peace

"I too am a current member in 'good standing' in the church. I read the blog and I know of two other current members who also read it. I am sure you're wondering why in the world I would still be attending after reading all of this. Honestly, I am weak and just don't have the courage to leave because of family members who are still involved. Because of the threat of withdrawal for murmuring it's impossible to ask others what they think of the blog posts and videos. I am sure I will leave someday, I'm just not quite ready." ~Anonymous

"I'm currently a member in "good standing" in the church. I read the blog, even though its frowned upon. I can't begin to tell you how closely the comments and personal testimonies align and match what's happening in the church. You read something here, and it opens your eyes to that behavior now. so that when you see it happening, you instantly think about who it happened to here on this blog, and you know the damage it causing." ~Anonymous

"I’m not giving up on God like they believe I’m lost now. I’m so glad I found this blog. It helped open my eyes to what I was a part of for TOO long." ~Not going back

“Dear sir, this plan of making our own nest, and fluttering over our own brood; of building our own tent, and of confining all goodness and grace to our noble selves and the “elect few” who are like us, is the quintessence of sublimated pharisaism. The old Pharisees were but babes in comparison to the modern: and the longer I live, and the more I reflect upon God and man–heaven and earth–the Bible and the world–the Redeemer and his church–the more I am assured that all sectarianism is the offspring of hell; and that all differences about words, and names, and opinions, hatched in Egypt, or Rome, or Edinburgh, are like the frolics of drunken men; and that where there is a new creature, or a society of them, with all their imperfections and frailties, and errors in sentiment, in views, and opinions, they ought to receive one another, and the strong to support the weak, and not to please themselves. To lock ourselves up in the bandbox of our own little circle; to associate with a few units, tens, or hundreds, as the pure church, as the elect, is real Protestant monkery, it is evangelical pharisaism.” Alexander Campbell

“I blush for my fellows who hold up the Bible as the bond of union, yet make their opinions of it a test of fellowship; who plead for union of all Christians, yet refuse to fellowship with such as dissent from their notions. Vain men! Their zeal is not according to knowledge, nor is their spirit that of Christ. Such antisectarian-sectarians are doing more mischief to the cause and advancement of truth, the unity of Christians, and the salvation of the world, than all the skeptics in the world. In fact, they create skeptics.” Barton Stone

"Someone told me here just recently that, Gary, do you realize what’s happening, under cover? People are coming out and expressing what it is that they feel, their disdain and contempt for what you believe. I’ve got to know how to respond. And I know how I respond. That’s the basis of this lesson. I refuse. I refuse, to the uttermost of my being to dignify the absurdity of the questions and the challenges in which it is that people will present. What I mean by that is that I will not honor, they are not worthy of my consideration. … [M]y whole estimation was to not give it a nickel’s worth of consideration. But I want to give you what it is how I deal with things like this. How I respond. Because I don’t. I don’t." Gary Preman

Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Stanton is full of feminism. Every woman who speaks in church besides prayers and song requests and who teaches Bible classes is a feminist. And the sad fact is the feminists have complete control of…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Yes, and do the women stay silent in the churces? Do they only teach women’s classes and children’s classes under the supervision of righteous men? No, they never have in the history of Stanton. How a…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?One of the reasons why women speaking in Bible Classes is such a great evil is because the Bible Classes become gigantic Safe Spaces for women’s deceived feelings. So if you say something that the wom…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?God had very good reasons for commanding women to remain silent in the church. From Robert Briffault’s book, “The Mothers” “Civilisation, as it presents itself in humanity’s power of control over natu…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Merie taught women correctly, to stay home, have a lot of children, don’t have televisions in your home, be a dutiful wife. But, she also taught them, by her example, to rebel against God’s order and…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?“Our whole country stinks of Money, of desire for money and for what money can buy. We even rate the size and worth of a man by the amount of his income. To get money, there are few of us left who wou…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Another fabulous article by Lori Alexander. Godly women are QUIET women. One paragraph jumps out. “ How are godly women to behave in the churches? “Let the women learn in silence with all subjection.…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?On Election Day, let it be noted that women being allowed to vote and speak in the churches has been a disaster for America, and that both ideas didn’t exist in America just 124 years ago. Both partie…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Very interesting. I’m reading the 50 volume set of the Harvard Classics, which is better than any college education, and which can be obtained for a fraction of the price, (it includes parts of the Bi…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?It is difficult to understand. A woman who was a saint in so many areas, yet, who rebelled against God’s order for women. Kind of similar to one of the most famous women from early America, Anne Hutch…
anony on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?I have a hard time with this because I feel the examples you gave of righteous individuals that fell into sinful behavior all brought forth evidence of repentance. Meri died in her unbiblical state. A…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Thank you for your question. It puzzles me as well. How can a woman who was so good in so many areas be bad when it comes to women speaking publicly? There has been so much damage caused to marriages…
anony on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?can I ask you a question truth defender…. you speak soo much about how merie Weiss was sooo contrary and rebellious to the will and order of God for women in his kingdom, yet will call her righteous a…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?“How dreadful when right judge judges wrong” wrote Sophocles in his splendid and profound play, “Antigone.” Why? Because of all humans, it is hardest to correct a good person commonly. It’s easy to co…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?It’s sad that not a single woman in Stanton was ever taught God’s order, that she is to remain quiet in the church, and to prioritize her husband, children, and home. They can sing and ask prayer requ…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Instead of being a teacher in Bible classes and teaching men, why don’t women teachers in Stanton teach their own children, teach other women under Godly men’s supervision, and teach children’s classe…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?In 1920, due to Jewish intrigues, women were given the right to vote, which was a disaster for them and America. It was part of a Jewish socialist agenda, which says a woman is a unit of society, NOT…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Merie taught me a lot of excellent things. But, she never taught the primary duty of women, to be a Keeper at Home. Merie never learned to be a Keeper at home herself. The paid preacher system was far…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Comment on Gab, over 11,000 views. “Consider the thousands of conflicts between men because wives have been asserting their mistaken ideas publicly, and when another man corrects them, the wife goes t…
Truth Defender on Here’s Joe Gautreau’s letter of withdrawal…where do I start?Proverbs 21:19 It is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman. Sadly, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. It’s sad that 20% of the women in Stanton who insist…